Wayne Dowler

Just pointing out that some of the older sails were really almost direct Rev copies, but little to no QC with them. People bought them and complained about quads in general. That hurt Rev's business. As word got out about them, people started to understand the differences. Still, people bought them because they were cheap - and cheaply made! Lines were terrible, uneven and poor quality. Better to not get into that past! Rev has established the standard for good quads, where it goes from here - Sky's the limit!

Stay away from the Windrider! New lines are Exodus and Vertigo. Windrider was trying to compete directly and considered a "knock off" at the time. Construction was shoddy, QC non-existent. Bridles were a mess. Andy has put some QC requirements on Freilein to handle their stuff. The old kites? Still best practice is to buy from someone you can trust, contact, etc!

Like I said - the Phoenix has really just emerged and hasn't a real distribution network set up. Still too early. Best way to see them is on the FB page I gave you. Not even sure they are up on the Glued to the Blue page yet. The Freileins are from China with heavy influence from an American store owner in Washington State. He's been influencing design and build features to better compete with the Revolution factory products. Again not sure if they are up on the store's website yet, but he's carrying them, along with a few others. Just not sure how big their network is yet. Maybe in time, one or both will be available in the UK or at least over there somewhere! Till then ??

The Phoenix line is a direct buy from Bazzer. You might try his Glued to the Blue website and contact him through there. Or if you are also on FB, use his page - Kites and Designs by Bazzer. Or contact his wife Jane (Scout) here by PM about them. Not sure how big the Freilein distribution network is yet. I think you can look at them on Andy's Ocean Shore Kites website. He has been giving them input on what to change/add/modify to make the kites more acceptable to us users. As far as I know, neither has a regular presence in the UK - yet.

I don't see any verts in it, so I'm guessing all the wrinkles will come out when fully assembled?!? Very pretty - but I need some veggies to go with it!

Pretty sure the candle will be enough. Resins may degrade the line over time. The wax just makes the line a bit "grippier" !

About the sliding bridle line thing: Try moving the loop formed by the knot, to the bottom. The knot when pulled tight "locks" closed. You have it in the "open" position now. It takes a bit of practice to keep the loop down at the bottom of the knot, but it will prevent the moving issue. That is the red line in your pic. The loop is underneath in your pic. It should lock the white line in place. Also a bit of candle rubbed over the white line will give it some more purchase, if the locking loop doesn't hold. But I'm guessing that if you get the loop in the right place to form the knot correctly, you won't need it. So try to get that loop down to the bottom!

PS: he was almost certainly using Shanti Skybond line too! His whole team is using that.

Let us see if I can explain: There are Black Race rods and Green Race rods. All the newest generations of rods (all that I know of) have the Green trimmed labels. So all rods ( race or wrap) come with this green trimmed label. For explanation purposes, here's the closest I have on what the rods equal: Black race rods are about the weight of 2 wrap rods, but as strong as 3 wrap. Still made. Many use them in place of 2 wraps. Green race rods weigh about the same as 3 wrap, but are as strong as 4 wrap. Still made. Some use them to replace 3 or 4 wraps. So remember there are 2 different race rods out there - black and green, both have the green trimmed label on them. Hope that clears up any confusion!

True - but there has been a difference and we know it! Will they solve it or are we left to just get by? Only time will tell if they ever get this under control!

Be nice if they have finally solved that problem - BUT!! Unless they have found another supplier of raw materials - ??? Talking to Ben - they never got his supplier from him and started using their own? Have they solved this??? Time will tell!

So you got GT black race rods - correct?

There seems to be a bit of a mix up in terminology here: There is a difference between green race rods and any rods marked by the green trim on the silver label. Green trimmed labels can be on ANY rod type! 2 wrap, 3 wrap, black race, diamond all have them. They identify the latest generation of Rev rods, and been out a little over a year or so. Green Race rods are different than any "wrap" rod, have more the flex of black race rods, but not quite the same reflex (back to straight). I use mine in my X/V, where absolute precision isn't as important as everything surviving intact! I have the "GT" labels on my diamond rods! All my others are "vintage (before GT). All the older green race are as strong as anything Rev has put out except some specialty rods made for stacks (that I know of). But the newer GT rods have shown weight differences and breakage issues not the same as the "old" rods! YMMV

Is the kite turning itself or are you turning it? If it is turning by itself - check your line lengths for equal. Uneven lines would be like sticking a 13" tire on a car meant to have 15"s. You would always be compensating for it. Not a flier of these, so couldn't tell you if this is a usual characteristic if lines are even - sorry!

Always!!!

Delta was a great place before everything grew up around there! Trees are now 3 times bigger, commercial growth has put up buildings, etc. And like John said - lots of people use the parking area we use for flying, as an off leash dog run. Just not what it used to be. Broughton Beach isn't far away from there and is closer to the river. There are little pockets of good flying - but - now that school has started, you can't use their fields during school hours. Maybe nights and/or weekends depending on whether they are promised out to football, soccer, lacrosse teams. If it comes down to us or them - guess who moves or leaves! But there are little parks around that can be used. Make up a set of short lines that help you fit in just about any space! I have 30' and 50' that fit almost anywhere! Or if you want to try something different, with the weather changing, I fly indoors over here in Clackamas! Just north of Oregon City/Gladstone, I use an indoor soccer center all year round during the day, except nights or weekends.Games and practices are scheduled every night and all weekend, but all day is pretty much open, Use it infrequently during summers, weather is too good, and it's hot in there, but I use it all winter! Are you also on FB? Have a page over there, Portland Area Kite Flyers, setup to let each other know things like schedules, events, etc. Welcome to join in the fun!

I would hope so considering the "B" pro was sewn by Bazzer!! It is an updated model featuring the small vent on the TE. Makes the transition from forward to backward flight a lot smoother. That and an improved bridle setup, with a different panel layout ...

The real issue is that there is no one "perfect kite" for every and all conditions. Rather each has an appropriate wind range geared to make the most from that sail. Can you "force something to do more or less"? You might to a point. But wouldn't you be happier driving in nails with a hammer, instead of using pliers?

My opinion - both! Control suffers as winds pick up and it gets harder to manage things. Breakage - because as you possibly lose control - crashes happen, and in bigger winds = bigger crashes! All in all not a good thing. It's not that any mid is the "bad choice", more that it does take a bit more wind before it even starts to fly. With a std sail - you'd be up and flying. Again, in high winds, when the mid is struggling, a full vent would be a better choice. In the end though it is always your choice!! PS: I carry 5-6 almost always - a Zen and SUL for light wind, std, mid, F/V, and X/V to cover just about anything encountered!

Your choice - but I can't agree with it. There will be days that there isn't enough wind, or days of too much, and your mid will be the wrong choice, The full sail/full vent option gives you the most wind range coverage. Yes it is two sails, but you can get the second as a "kite only" option and skip duplicating the lines and handles you already have! Think of a brick wall - two bricks end to end and one centered over the joint. Which covers the most space?? Admittedly, the two sails do have a bit of a hole in their overlap, but using the frames (they are interchangeable) from either sail, will get you through that spot. IMHO - YMMV!

The difference is in the weave. Fishing line has a looser weave to absorb the shock of a strike. Kite line is made tighter for a more direct line of communication to the kite. In many cases of flying alone, fishing lines (especially the newer braids, I would stay away from mono) are commonplace and reasonably acceptable. But beware of stretching! The more constant pull of a kite on the lines (unlike fishing where you get infrequent bites) may cause the line to stretch or "creep" while the strain causes the lines to lengthen under stress. Flying it in groups? Not too sure on how it would handle in a group situation. Not really sure on it's abrasion with other lines. Even if made in the same factory - think about the numbers. Amount of people fishing against number of people flying. Good kite lines are a small percentage of a line maker's overall production and as such get a premium for their production!

Some people take the frames out and roll up the sail - no folds that way. Not sure how that would work in a Rev bag, but should work fine in any "dig" bag. No, you don't "need" 18 kites - but you'd better have a couple just in case the winds decide to change!

You are correct - it is an "experience" thing! Most times I'm ready to put up a vented faster than most - recovered from a stroke - and avoid a faceplant. But there are times I will fly what I've got up, right to the point of too much. You'll find that Rev rods (at least the older ones) are surprisingly strong and will flex more than we feel comfortable with! I fly in a team most times and we usually agree on a common setup, right down to sail and frames. Only thing left to personal choice is knots at the handle!

Nothing wrong with some curve in the LE, but too big a curve means the next stronger frame or a sail switch!