harveyt Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I have heard about a different bridal for the Revs. But, I cannot nail it down. I think it is called a french bridal. Does anyone know anything about it? And, what does it make the kite do differently than the Rev bridal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I have one on a Rev1.5SUL that has a couple of other mods. IMO it makes the kite more responsive, some say sensitive, to your inputs. Twitchy is a term thrown around but I don't mind that as it is for very light winds. The connection points are moved further outwards from the centre. For about 25 dollars plus postage I think it is worth it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Look on this forum and the Rev forum under items like modifications and such. The variations on the "French" bridle all have one thing in common and that is additional legs going to the leading edge and cross-active additions to the front part of the bridle. The legs to the leading edge give additional support and stiffness. The cross-active legs allow the kite to tilt without tilting the bridle. I realize this probably makes no sense to you or most other people, but is a little easier to understand if you can see a photo of it, or play with it in person. If you google French Bridle you should get results also that will show images. There are three distinctly different ones and many more personal variations on the theme. Some people like them, others don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 The common French Bridal still has 5 connection points on the LE. The Revoholic French Bridal has 7 but I think that is a PAW special. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Try clicking here: http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/1687-french-bridles/?view=findpost&p=14128&hl=%2Bfrench+%2Bbridle Some French Bridles have six legs to the leading edge, as this one does. The middle pivot is deleted. Google "french bridle kite". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Mark's link is not to a french bridle, maybe it's a turbo model miss-labelled. The French Bridle was designed by two team-mates from the Crazy Driver quad-lined team in France. It is used with permission, personally tied by Will Sturdy and sold by Flying Smiles Kites. The FB has six legs that go to the center attachment point on the leading edge, (4 if you don't install the "restrictor line" that comes with it) ~ take your kite standing upright and grab the center bridle attachment point and see how far it wiggles left and right. That is over-streer and must be corrected for thru pre-tensioning or Whump-action. The bottom attachment point on the bridle is also supported by four legs as opposed to 2 with the stock bridle. Again it's completely rigid, no play, slop, or movement of any kind, "Arc-welded") The top attachment point is built outside of the frame, so to your hands/brain the kite just got bigger, more precise. Some may call it twitchy in flight, but most pilots think it is more responsive. I took 8 months to fully commit to this modification, so it might feel weird in the beginning. Particularly when you engage the afterburners. It' leaps forward like a predator. The attachment point from the bridle to the top of the down spar intersection end-cap is slight loose in normal flight, but if you demand action quickly it kicks in and further deforms the frame resulting in the surge forward. It's not a reflection of handle tuning, so you can add a huge dose of "DOWN" into the tuning and still have the burst if necessary (slack lining comes to my mind immediately) The FB is available for all three size formats B2/Rev2,.... the 1.5 platforms,.... the big one, Zen/Rev1 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200468097999855&set=a.3125872780636.2141729.1079141123&type=3&theater It allows you to frame lighter as the stress is spread-out over a much larger surface area. With the sticks on the back and the french bridle on the front you can fly a lighter wind sail configuration too. Like anything else, it's a personal choice best reached thru experimentation. See if you like it, then worry about how much it will cost to change over all of your kites! -plm PS: Someplace on my hard-drive is the FB diagram and instruction sheet for installation. NOTE: The top flying line attachment point needs to resemble a triangle shape as opposed to a diamond like the link shows above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204486038725862&set=a.10200884097639586.1073741826.1079141123&type=1&theater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyt Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thank you Paul LaMasters, and everyone that contributed to this thread. I appreciate the information. I could not find Paul's installation instructions. Where can I buy one to try it out? Or, do I need to make one myself? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 http://www.flyingsmileskites.com speak or email Cath/Eliot,..... I'll post the FB diagram if I can find it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyt Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thank you Paul! I'll contact them. And, give the French Bridal a try. I'll try to post my impressions after trying it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 okay found some info and sketch on FB https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202289597656208&set=a.10200884097639586.1073741826.1079141123&type=1&theater the dimensions are coming "soon" if you want to do-it-yourself. I used to make my own french bridles, took too darn long (4 hrs each!), now they are available commercially so it's easy to carry spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 OMG, the complexity ! I use the K.I.S.S mantra with my kite flying... does the French Bridle add that much to the flying characteristics ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 It's a personal feel thing IMHO! Some like it, some don't! It does suit specific conditions very well, that I will admit. I'd have to spend a lot of time to tell how much, since I'm used to the stock setup. It's always a question of what you are looking for in characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 OMG, the complexity ! I use the K.I.S.S mantra with my kite flying... does the French Bridle add that much to the flying characteristics ? Not that complex... Call Flying Smiles kites, give cc number and addy, hang up. Seriously, it is dead easy to install and set up. Instructions are clear. Might see if there is one in B2 size??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 My B-2 has the french bridle Rob (I know it's available as I gave Will Strudy a Rev2 to fabricate it against), but the magic sticks I made with micro-carbon rods instead of the point 125 tubes commercially available from Shooks. I fly it on a 3 piece Race leading edge frame, even in big wind, just going to longer lines. Each end-cap loop is individually marked for location installation on the bridle itself (easily removable blue painter tape), you just put 'em on one leg at time until it's all done. Inspect carefully to make certain nothing is twisted or tangled. Paint all the knots with nail polish and allow it to dry overnight. Go spank it hard, aggressive movements are rewarding, I prefer longer flying handles too, but no point in introducing too many variables when comparing. Ideally you have a friend. The only unknown dimension is the bottom attachment point length for your flying lines. The FB was designed for John's knot system on 15 inch no-snag handles. If you use anything else, you'll need to adjust the bridle so the same handle settings work on either style of bridle. I work from an inverted position. You do this bridle tuning once, cutting away any excess. Then regardless of platform bridle choice the handles are the same tuning. Now comparisons are easy to consider and discuss (more fun with a friend helping you!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 It is worth 30 bucks? here's an example of the french bridle/stock bridle comparsion There may be a set of driving conditions when you don't want power steering or a manual transmission. Yet those things could become vital on some types of terrain. More specialized still,... might be independent parking brakes on each rear wheel. Well my local conditions are no stinkin' wind most of the time, so ANY advantage I can gain under these circumstances is more flight time (less hurt afterwards!) I want the kite instantly responsive and I don't want to run around adding energy. I prefer the feel of twitchy, little tiny movements having a profound impact on flight. Sure you can fly all smooth and graceful, or you can test the stitching with hard flailing actions. After you get used to it that way (and you might find you prefer the stock bridle feeling after comparing) then you want all the the kites to fly the same. I can fly stock, I just prefer it "my way". Flying with Scott's team means not getting my preferences, but it's still fun. The french bridle is most rewarding when a newbie has a choice of a whole bunch of kites and they almost aways pick mine. Even the hard-core 20 year veterans marvel at how it feels on the ends of the line. That doesn't mean they change, at least they can acknowledge choices are available. If I could only do one kite, I'd probably take my oldest full sail 1.5 and add the magic sticks and french bridle to make a new kite. It's hard to justify the cost of changing bridles on a couple of dozen kites. I took 8 months before crossing over. Honestly, I haven't used the stock bridle since about 1999. It simply has too much wiggle for my liking. The French just took that preference further along the road. I didn't use sissy sticks for the first 7 years either. We could get into how I prefer the kite be built too, more reinforcing patches and lighter weight leading edge sleeve. It's all an evolution as I get deeper and deeper into the addiction. I have old kites that were designed to fly in no wind with the SLE tubes, on a laser-straight leading edge no-sew construction. I don't use it or prefer it anymore, but at one time it was a go-to kite for literally thousands of hours! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I've never measured Will Strudy's bridle tying efforts, but here's the starting point sketch where we started from measured in centimeters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 ....dig it. 'Nuff said. Just what I need....another tinker session. Guess I could go ahead and french the B2 ...as I add sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 ....dig it. 'Nuff said. Just what I need....another tinker session. Guess I could go ahead and french the B2 ...as I add sticks. Do It!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just ordered the 1 and 1.5 size from Kath and Elliot at Flying Smiles. They are out of the ones for the 2-size kites at the moment. Tinker, fly. Tinker, fly. Repeat, repeat, repeat -- I love it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Just ordered the 1 and 1.5 size from Kath and Elliot at Flying Smiles. They are out of the ones for the 2-size kites at the moment. Tinker, fly. Tinker, fly. Repeat, repeat, repeat -- I love it. Hmmm, and I just topped up my PayPal too!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Mark, it's a proportion (algebra test), use the down spar length as the fixed ratio of each kite. Like a 16 inch piece on a 30 inch tube, . . . . so now if the tube became 36 inches, you'd multiple 1.2 times "sixteen" and arrive at 19.2 inches 16/30 is equal to "x"/36 just resize everything (either larger for the Zen or smaller at the B2) and make it out of "hi-test bridle line 100#" as it is super easy to work with,.... eventually you'll want to fabricate a bridle board to make 'em easily repeatable. That means making and testing your model first, then untying it after satisfactory results are reached and measuring how much line length gets used in each of those knots, plus the "leg" length. How are you going to assemble the bridle leg pieces? It's got to be easy (foolproof) or be provided all ready to go in the pkg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyzakite Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Paul? If you get into algebra tests, even Jethro Bodine understood, ought from ought equals ought! But how many kite flyers actually understand the actual facts you share? You share inspiration, but not so many facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Mark, it's a proportion (algebra test), use the down spar length as the fixed ratio of each kite. Like a 16 inch piece on a 30 inch tube, . . . . so now if the tube became 36 inches, you'd multiple 1.2 times "sixteen" and arrive at 19.2 inches 16/30 is equal to "x"/36 just resize everything (either larger for the Zen or smaller at the B2) and make it out of "hi-test bridle line 100#" as it is super easy to work with,.... eventually you'll want to fabricate a bridle board to make 'em easily repeatable. That means making and testing your model first, then untying it after satisfactory results are reached and measuring how much line length gets used in each of those knots, plus the "leg" length. How are you going to assemble the bridle leg pieces? It's got to be easy (foolproof) or be provided all ready to go in the pkg. I haven't had a chance to fly the French bridle yet, but if I like it, the only ones I'd be tying myself would be for my SUL's -- unless I can talk Elliot or Cath to tie them from 50# LPG for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyzakite Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 At least share the info of the knots and loops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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