Beginning Widowmaker

[ofted42]

Hello all,

First, thanks to all who gave me advice on my last thread here as to where to go from my Prism Quantum. I started flying kites beginning of last summer and used the Quantum for a few months but felt like I could be doing more with something a bit more responsive. After all the advice I bit the bullet and ordered a Skyburner Widowmaker.

Which brings us to the point. Keep in mind that I'm new to a high end two line kite, and I wasn't doing anything fancy with the Quantum. Mostly snap stalls, once in a while I'd get part of a side slide, and maybe an axel here or there.

I was able to get out quite a few times with the widowmaker, and while I immediately noticed a difference in control and precision, I appear to be stumped. I've been trying to get some snap stalls with limited success and my side slides really suck. Besides those, whenever I try an axel or any other type of simpler trick like fades, the kite just seems to lose all lift and fall randomly toward the ground like a leaf. Lines go slack and down she goes. I've tried in high winds, lower winds, all sorts of conditions. This is at the beach as well, so the wind is very consistent off the lake. I've studied videos and watched the hand movements carefully, but no matter how closely I try to duplicate them it just seems to fall out of the sky in a tangled mess. This is somewhat frustrating, and while I of course don't expect to be making the thing dance without lots of practice, it seems like a kite that can flip all over in light winds and stay up shouldn't be challenged by my simple tricks I'm attempting. Obviously I'm doing something fundamentally wrong, but darned if I can figure it out.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks

Kris

[Fred van Curen]

As a old new be it's sounds like to me you are pulling the kites out of the sky-try giving softer end puts.

[BrianS]

Is there any chance you could post a few minutes of video that shows the problem you're having? (Even a cell phone video would be fine.) This is one of those a-picture-is-worth-a-thousand-words situations. I'll bet that we could get you pointed in the right direction if we could see it happen. It sort of sounds like you might be over-powering the inputs and then throwing too much slack. The quickest path to success is to get some help on the field in-person with someone who knows how to do the tricks you're learning. (I realize that it's not always easy to find someone like that, which is why I suggested posting a video.)

Just a comment about those "simpler" tricks you're learning: some of them aren't necessarily simple. I realize that at least one of the popular videos implies that Side Slides are an easy trick, but I would personally put them in the advanced category. I find that they require a lot of finesse with the outside hand, so don't be discouraged if it takes a lot of practice to get them right.

Once you can stall the kite you shouldn't have much difficulty mastering the Axel. The Widow Maker loves to do Backflips and Lazy Susans. If you haven't already learned those, I'd suggest putting them on the short list of tricks to learn. They'll help you get the feel for managing slack in the lines and that's a valuable skill that will help you with the other tricks.

[RobB]

Hey Kris...

One big difference is that the Widow Maker needs much lighter inputs than the Quantum. Like Brian was saying up above, you might be overpowering it. That may be it, but it may be more than that. When I first got my Widow Maker, I could fly the snot out of it the first few minutes out of the bag. It is one of the few kites that I instantly took to with no period of adjustment. Speaking of adjustments... have you compared the bridle, right vs. left ? Have you adjusted it any ? It sounds like it could be set wrong, causing the kite to be too loaded up, making it twitchy.

I'm going to agree again with Brian, pictures & videos will do a lot for us to help you. When I was learning how to trick, I made a bunch of 'What am I doing Wrong ?' videos, and got a lot of help from some great pilots. It really helped me, as I don't have anyone to teach me in person. It also helped for me to watch them, and I could actually see what I was doing wrong.

I don't think you could've made a better choice in a kite, we'll get this figured out...

~Rob.

[Tmadz]

I too have struggled with subtler inputs. Once you start to get that muscle memory the tricks will come. I have the Premier Widow and it is lights years different than the Quantum. Completely different feel that requires adjustment to your inputs. keep at it and post pictures for help. There is another forum with lots of experienced dual line fliers who can offer and have already posted lots of fixes for fliers.

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?board=16.0

This is the beginners part of the forum. Many, many questions have been answered already.

(Thanks JB)

[John Barresi]

There is another forum with lots of experienced dual line fliers who can offer and have already posted lots of fixes for fliers.

You can post the link Tmadz, all for the benefit of the flier - thanks.

[makatakam]

Check the paperwork that came with it or go online, and make adjustments to the bridle (bring the nose towards you = decrease the angle of attack) and standoff position toward center or away from center for the strength of the wind you fly in. The advanced kites are not one-size-fits-all-winds, and like to be adjusted. Make your adjustments in increments of about 1/4", fly re-adjust, and see if that makes a difference. Physically heavy kites need more input that lighter ones; the quantum is a heavy kite.

[SparkieRob]

Wrists more, arms less.

Once this gets in, it makes a lot of sense. I was way over inputting when I started but once deprogrammed that out, it has been much more pleasurable experience.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Palmahnic]

@ofted42, I feel your pain. I too left my Quantum for a similar kite to yours, the Widow NG. At the risk of being redundant, I would resonate most of what was said. Quantum needs snapier, harder inputs. Muscle memory will kick in, and all that. But I do want to leave you with hope, for a lack of a better tool. I left my Quantum 3 months back, and for the first couple of weeks, I kept waiting for the better, more costly, more advanced kite to deliver, and nothing. Couldn't axle proper even after achieving it with the Quantum. But then one day, it just came. Axle, clear and simple. A week later I was Flick Flacking, just like that, coin tossing, etc. Now I'm stuck on the back spin and the lazy Susan, but that's anther issue. My point is don't despair. It will take a few trips to the beach, but, as the paraphrase goes, if you fly it, they will come.

[RobB]

The difference in inputs shouldn't be that drastic between the Prism kite & the WM. Something else has got to be contributing to your troubles with the WM. I never had to adjust mine in the whole time I had it. I have learned to try not to adjust the kite, maybe only once or twice when I first get it, but once I find the sweet spot, I stick with it, no matter what the wind conditions. I will say that my Solus came to me with a mis-tied bridle, and the kite didn't fly well at all. It is possible that your WM has a bridle issue that needs to be sorted out, however that would be rare.

Start with posting pictures of the kite, try to hold the bridle out, too. We might be able to spot an issue from that.

[Tmadz]

I didn't feel the need to adjust my Premier Widow (I bought mine directly from Jon T.) It just wants to respond so much more than the Quantum that you might be exaggerating your inputs and not realizing it. The Quantum is built like a pickup truck. It'll do tricks, but not want to do it as easily. My Premier Widow is more like a Subaru WRX Ti, while very similar to the Widow Maker likened to a Porsche. The price tag is less, but it can and wants to do just about every trick. You wouldn't drive your pickup truck the same way you would a car more capable of speed and control. While the concept is the same, you will need to learn how fly the Widow Maker.