Another Newbie question - rotating bottom of handles out to the sides?

[p23brian]

In many of John B.'s tutorials he seems to be purposefully rotating his wrists to swing the bottom of the handle out to the side sometimes.  I can't wrap my head around how this affects the kite.  Can anyone explain?

These videos are great!  I'm slowly figuring out how to translate what I know about sailing to a kite that moves in many more dimensions than a sailboat.  A light bulb just came on in my noggin watching the Tuning Theory video this morning.  It seems that the line setting that people refer to as the "sweet spot" is right at the point where the kite is ready to stall.  At this point slight pull on the uppers, or easing the lowers, generates lift and moves the kite forward.  And a slight movement in the opposite direction causes a stall, letting it slip backwards (or down, depending on which way it's facing)  This is the point I reached yesterday when I was experimenting with different settings on my top leaders.

Just waiting for the wind to fill in a little and I'll be heading out again today for a couple of hours.

[SparkieRob]

If it is the "A" formed by the handles, I think it is just the natural ergo state of your wrists.


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[RobB]

The bottoms of my handles rotate out to the side when I do an upside-down hover. I don't know why, but the handles end up horizontal.

[Edmond Dragut]

i already on to another post told you about setups and fly style, nobody is making the same maneuver with the same movement and J.B. is a prime ballerina (on the good way ) is not making just the movement for the kite he is dancing with.

do not try to understand what anybody is doing, try to do the moves how you feel to be done and are you comfortable 

[Wayne Dowler]

Think about the amount of movement allowed if you keep your hands locked in front of you and can only go up or down! Now try the move with your hands more out to your sides - you should see a dramatic increase of unrestricted area. Many of us fly the Rev as we feel comfortable - ergonomics plays a huge part. Movements are only restricted by the ability to move wrists, letting the arms to be outside the body frame increases the amount you can move. This comes with a "BUT" - you still need to control it! See my pic - 

 

[Wayne Dowler]

PS: Holding the handles gently, not with a death grip, really helps in this position. You can still move the handles with your fingers, more than needing the whole hand. It really comes down to relaxing as you fly, not tensing up! 

Breathe!!! 

PS: Zen, 120' x 50# lines, 15" handles

[makatakam]

Also, with the bottoms of the handles pointed down and out, you don't hit yourself in the nuts when you make a large sudden brake input, for instance the kind needed to initiate an axel or dive-stop. To get an idea of the additional range of motion this gives you, make a fist and put it in front of your face. Now, keeping your fist at the same level as your face, move your entire arm out to the side and swing your fist out behind you as far as possible. Now try it with your fist at the same level as your waist.

The A-frame position you see peoples' hands in during inverted flight adds stability, by increasing the distance between the bottom tips of the handles. This position actually decreases the brake input from each handle by increasing the differential. Imagine two tables. One that has the legs this ll far apart, and one this l     l far apart. Which is harder to knock over and therefore more stable? This is more stable regardless of the kite's orientation, but is more critical during inverted flight. Going totally horizontal with the handles will increase the differential as will moving your hands away from each other. The hand positions you end up using is determined by your personal ergonomic comfort zone, your style of flying and what you want to accomplish. This will naturally all fall into place on its own as you develop greater skill and experience, and will change as you age and/or your physical ability and stamina change. 

For now, just fly and don't sweat the small stuff. It will all sort itself out with time. Have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe.

[p23brian]

To clarify, I wasn't referring to moving hands to the side.  What I meant was regardless of hand position relative to body position, rotating wrist 90 degrees so the handle is horizontal with the bottom pointing to the side rather than down.

I haven't had any trouble gripping the handles too tight.  They're usually balanced on a finger or two.

Thanks for all the replys!

[makatakam]

1 hour ago, p23brian said:

To clarify, I wasn't referring to moving hands to the side.  What I meant was regardless of hand position relative to body position, rotating wrist 90 degrees so the handle is horizontal with the bottom pointing to the side rather than down.

I haven't had any trouble gripping the handles too tight.  They're usually balanced on a finger or two.

Thanks for all the replys!

A bit greater range of motion for his flying style. Also, he dances with the kite, and uses exaggerated inputs to enhance the visual aspects of his performance.  His ballet style is yank-and-spank most of the time. If you watch some video of his precision routines and the tutorials available on this forum, you will see a marked difference in the input movement. You will commonly see this tendency in those whose style is not static. In other words, those who move their feet around the field quite a bit. It doesn't add very much more effect to inputs that he couldn't do sitting on his butt, but sitting on his butt is not his style. I don't believe he is intentionally doing it or immediately aware of it. It is something that has just become part of the way he moves. 

[John Barresi]

Mostly ergonomics, efficient position(s) and range(s) of motion for the human form... Some variance for body type, hand shape, finger length, injuries and personal quirks, but the baseline for efficient flight is pretty much the same for everyone.

From there it's a matter of sport vs recreation - sport is efficiency and recreation is expression, somewhere in the overlap is where I just fly away...

[makatakam]

5 hours ago, John Barresi said:

Mostly ergonomics, efficient position(s) and range(s) of motion for the human form... Some variance for body type, hand shape, finger length, injuries and personal quirks, but the baseline for efficient flight is pretty much the same for everyone.

From there it's a matter of sport vs recreation - sport is efficiency and recreation is expression, somewhere in the overlap is where I just fly away...

Put simply -- He puts his heart into it.

[RobB]

I think after a while of flying, you stop paying attention to what your handles are doing... They become extensions of your hands, and they just do what they do....

[Wayne Dowler]

The only time I pay attention to mine is when I fly team. As the #3 flier in a line of 4, I'm surrounded! Last thing I want to do is whack my teammates!!!! This unfortunate situation is made worse by my solo style , I'm moving and the handles are everywhere! So I always have to think of which setting I'm in!!

[Paul LaMasters]

a couple of quick jabs Wayne and they will watch out for you instead,

one rib punch, one crotch stab & a hip pointer snag ought to do it!

 

[John Barresi]

So says the master of swords.