Breezin Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 14 hours ago, cjay said: Sounds like the AC is more stable, and has more forward momentum than the PD under 3 without as much running. And it can handle some variable winds also. That is a excellent way to put it. Last year at WSIKF Lam said Jon T on a Pro Dancer and him on a AC were flying in next to nothing side by side. 2 completely different kites and would have been a sight to see.Can't really run much at all. Fairly slow pace when backing up on the AC. Between the 75' and 120' lines a little lower flying on the 75'. It's so small a difference I'll most likely use the 120' set the most. Going to get some 30# next trip to town but not sure it'll be that dramatic. Not a natural by any stretch, I just get to fly A LOT. Kinda envy those that fly precision and ballet. Watching videos of that stuff is really cool.Esingers video on a beach flying a glider at sunrise is one of the best. I can go maybe a minute see a set up and can't help myself.Gotta trick.Think the VII will help me focus more on what the kite is doing rather than what can I make it do.Lam said the bigger one would take more effort indoors. Since I won't be flying indoors much leaning towards the bigger one. Had no intention of getting a VII until I flew the AC. Light bulb went off and that kite will force me to become a smoother flier. For me the rush of high wind flying is where the pure fun and excitement is. Inputs need to be FAST and correct.That makes me tense up so I can pounce on the next move or yank and spank out of a mistake. Flying like that doesn't translate very well from 12 mph down. Below 5 not much at all.Low wind flying is the most rewarding and the beauty of the kites moves are on full display.Really, really hard to fake it in 5 mph though 😡. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breezin Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 Going to have to ask Lam again about the side by side flying with Jon T. Think I got it wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 I glad you enjoyed the video Breezin. I enjoyed making it.If you're not planning to fly indoors, I'd stay away from the VII. It's a better indoor kite than outdoor in my opinion. The larger one seems more like what you might be looking forSent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using KiteLife mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjay Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Breezin said: Can't really run much at all. Fairly slow pace when backing up on the AC. I hadn't considered the AC as a SUL choice until you talked about it. Sounds like a really good option. And it has a fairly versatile wind range also. Would be nice to have a few SUL kites. 4 hours ago, Breezin said: Between the 75' and 120' lines a little lower flying on the 75' I have 85', and 100' lines, and find that I like the 85' lines the best. I can see the kite better, and still have a decent sized window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 I'm happy with my AC SUL. I can't compare it to a lot of the SULs the are around today, since I haven't flown many. I also find 80' lines to be the best length in general. If I had to select one line set to take anywhere with me, it would be 80' 90# lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 For tricking in low wind, Lam's kites are my choice. I have a Fearless Tattoo and Snow Devil SUL, and have flown some of the newer offerings, but not the latest. Absolute Zero wind, I prefer the PDSUL for its full size, closely followed by the Prism Ozone. 20+ year old designs, but they're hard to beat when there's no wind... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 For zero wind dual line flying I have a Peter Betancourt - Vanishing Point. It's not a trick kite, but tricking in no wind isn't for me (unless it's indoor) I need a slight breeze at least 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 Most indoor kites feel pretty limited outdoors. They usually are flown on short lines and there really isn't any "wind" to speak of. It's really easy to yank them out of the sky if you are too aggressive with your controls. Indoor has a certain style and outdoor conditions seldom favor it. Another reason most outdoor kites don't do well indoors. Too heavy and no "wind" to keep them working. I fly an Ozone, but you still have to be gentle or risk jerking it out of the sky. Light wind in general requires a certain finesse, it's a learned experience! For festival demos - bigger can be better! Full size SUL's really catch the attention of the viewer. But because of the specialized materials used - they can be pretty pricey. Back in 2002-3, my Ozone was $175? or so. Now for a good ultralight, you're looking at $300 on up .... unless you score on the used market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 I agree, the PBSK Vanishing Point is a great low wind kite, but mine needs a little bit (0.5 mph) of wind to get going. Or effort. The PBSK can do a few tricks more easily than the ProDancer, but the ProDancer needs less effort to keep in the air at really low wind speeds. I like the look of the PBSK better, though, and there are some Vanishing Points out there that are to die for ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 I have never flown a Pro Dancer, so not sure what I'm missing out on. Here's my Vanishing Point and last year I also picked up a used AirZero PBSK 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 Love the design on the Zero. The VP looks familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 Thanks RobB, I purchased the VP new back in the 90s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 The Pro Dancer SUL is one of my secret weapons for 0-2, 50#, 50’ or so... So easy to generate pressure with a drop of the hands, super stable with the flat sail, it likes small inputs (less wind dump) and will drop a vertical tip stab from a full 10’-12’ off the deck if you hit it right (called a black hole). One of my faves. ❤️ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breezin Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 2:39 PM, John Barresi said: On 2/12/2019 at 2:39 PM, John Barresi said: drop a vertical tip stab from a full 10’-12’ off the deck if you hit it right (called a black hole). One of my faves. ❤️ Hey I did that once. Called it the O'Dang Snap. One of my least faves 🤢. Musta dunnit ron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjay Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 JB, have you flown the AC SUL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Only briefly, but I’m just not a fan of that kite style (very deep sail, high cut, tuned to really stay on its back in a turtle)... Not saying good or bad, I just don’t like that feeling of being stuck on my back - I’m a little more old school / new school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Reading this thread, I'm not sure what each position means. Other than a fade being kite on its back, nose to flier. Would someone explain the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Turtle is the kite on it's back and nose away from the flier. A deep turtle means it sits with the nose angled more towards the ground and is difficult to get out of without a rotation maneuver of some type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 As in a backflipped position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 As in a backflipped position? YesSent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using KiteLife mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Anyone else with more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjay Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 16 hours ago, John Barresi said: Only briefly, but I’m just not a fan of that kite style (very deep sail, high cut, tuned to really stay on its back in a turtle)... Not saying good or bad, I just don’t like that feeling of being stuck on my back - I’m a little more old school / new school. I was looking at it as a kite for general SUL flying around. Would be a pain if it kept getting stuck in a turtle randomly. I don't know how to identify aspect ratio, sail depth, or cut, and how they effect kite performance. I have read some articles about it but I don't understand it yet. I am interested in learning about it though. Does the Widow NG have a deep sail and a low cut? Are the; 7 SUL, Nirvana, Benson Deep Space also new school, deep sail, high cut kites? And the Blue Moon Mamba more of an older school design? (whatever that means) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 I want to be exquisitely clear here - I’ve seen a fair number of folks who fly that kite (and others like it) without any “random turtle” problems... I’m speaking more to a conflict with my personal style and taste, don’t let it discourage you from including them in the running - it’s all a matter of what you connect with. ✌️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 With 2 stringer kites, they ALL have their own personality and try as many as you can. Some you'll keep, some you'll move on. Sent from my SM-G950F using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 If you'd like to try a Lam kind of kite and don't want to spend as much money as an AC SUL. Try the Silver Fox Second Generation SUL by Flying Wings. Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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