Dual line sport kite research, any recommendations?

[makatakam]

High or low end price point doesn't matter. You can fly either one around the window and just enjoy it, doing figure-eights, loops, tight corners, ground passes, etc. However, if you see something that you want to try and the kite just isn't capable of that move, the low end kite will limit your progress and enjoyment. The higher end kite will allow you to do what you wish, even just the basics, but even if that's all you do it will be much more enjoyable if you have better control.

[khsidekick]

Interesting. I had looked at those same kites. Also that your son likes the Widow NG but you not so much.
Nice collection. Any thoughts comparing the Sky burner to the Lam Hoac as far as the materials and build quality?
 

Both are top quality kites. Hadn't had to get parts for the Lam Hoac kites yet so I don't know how easy that will be, but the Sky Burner products are easy to get parts for from Kites and Fun Things. Got parts for my Widow NG from them too.


Sent from my IPhone

[TonyB]

4 hours ago, cjay said:

How did you decide on the AC? Were you able to try it before you bought it?

 

I decided on the AC after doing quite a bit of research on stunt kites (forum discussions, online videos, reading reviews, etc.) and  wherever I looked I kept seeing Lam Hoac mentioned so his kites were in a small list of kites I was considering purchasing (I was also considering the Silver Fox 2.5, Widowmaker Pro, Duende 240). While I did not fly the AC before purchasing it I did, however, call Lam Hoac and have a rather lengthy discussion over the phone.

Lam was not only very helpful in answering questions but he also offered to directly teach me in person and let me fly various kites so I could see/feel the differences myself (he lives about a 6 hour drive from me). It became apparent that he has a passion for kite making/flying and he cares more about sharing his experience and knowledge to ensure other kite enthusiasts get the most out of their time flying rather than just attempting to make a quick profit. He has basically devoted his life to kites and flying; he goes flying every chance he gets to test new ideas, improve upon his designs, participate in kite festivals/competitions, etc. 

Initially I was somewhat hesitant to spend over $400 on a single kite but then I considered what I was paying for and whether or not it was a good value. $400 for something that is handmade vs. mass produced in a factory, made by an expert who has devoted his life to kite making/flying, something that has been improved upon for 30 years in order to engineer a kite that is enjoyable to fly for both a beginner or expert, a kite that works with you rather than against you, and lastly a kite that is made by someone who stands by their product and is willing to go the extra mile to ensure you get the most out of the kite flying experience even after the purchase.

[cjay]

4 hours ago, makatakam said:

something that you want to try and the kite just isn't capable

I have a fairly short bucket list of tricks that I want to learn.

Like a slide, snap stall, half axle, full axle, and slot machine. 

The comete, and insane look interesting. I don't know that much about tricks yet.

[cjay]

4 hours ago, khsidekick said:

Both are top quality kites

I will have to look into these closer.

[cjay]

7 minutes ago, TonyB said:

he also offered to directly teach me in person

That's really cool. The Widowmaker Pro, Nirvana, and now the AC or Mind Trick are on my short list for higher end kites to consider.

Seems like the more I look into kites the more questions I have. I am ready to get to the flying part.

[makatakam]

15 hours ago, cjay said:

I have a fairly short bucket list of tricks that I want to learn.

Like a slide, snap stall, half axle, full axle, and slot machine. 

The comete, and insane look interesting. I don't know that much about tricks yet.

Any full-sized kite that costs less than $100 (with extremely few exceptions) will fight you all the way on all of these.

[John Barresi]

Yep, what Mark said.

[cjay]

3 hours ago, makatakam said:

Any full-sized kite that costs less than $100 (with extremely few exceptions) will fight you all the way on all of these

That's good information to know.

[SHBKF]

We are actually quite fortunate that our love of kites, even at the boutique level, is quite inexpensive compared to many hobbies these days.  Getting into a new field can easily run thousands of dollars & sometimes that is just for the latest clothing "needed".  I am currently researching & studying to seriously enter a hobby that has been a dream of mine for most of my life. The current basic entry level equipment is going to run over five thousand easily.  Pick any adult hobby & be ready to spend ten thousand if you want street cred among your peers.  But even that is minor compared to what I spent on horses.  The horse was the cheap item.  Fencing, stable, tack, trailer & truck all added up quickly.  But I still struggled mightily when I was finally started buying kites a few years back.  The initial stumbling block seemed to occur at about eighty bucks for me.  That's about all the cash I ever have on me it seems.  Shoot, that's what a decent line set costs when you finally go for it.  

Anyhow, no regerts, just have a Snickers,  SHBKF

a good morning camp breakfast on the trail

[cjay]

7 minutes ago, SHBKF said:

We are actually quite fortunate that our love of kites, even at the boutique level, is quite inexpensive compared to many hobbies these days.

I hear you on that one.

Grew up skiing, doing motocross, wheeling, snowboarding, rock climbing, and the list goes on.

Now I can't do much of the high impact sports, and don't really care or have the money for most of the other stuff anymore.

The thing about kite flying is that it isn't very productive compared to fixing your house, or car etc. and there are many important activities in life that actually do require productive attention competing for a persons time.

But when you have had enough of that being productive nonsense, or have the luxury of time it is pretty relaxing to go fly a kite.

 

13 minutes ago, SHBKF said:

 I am currently researching & studying to seriously enter a hobby that has been a dream of mine for most of my life.

Which hobby might that be? 

If you don't mind talking about it that is.

[cjay]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 5:53 PM, TonyB said:

(Lam Hoac) lives about a 6 hour drive from me

Where is Lam Hoac located?

 I just noticed you live in Richland Wa.

 I used to motocross at the horn rapids race track near there.

 I lived in the Walla Walla area for a few years, and I still have relatives and friends there. I still get over that way sometimes. Lots of nice open areas and farm fields to fly in around that area for sure. I will be bringing my kites with me and do some flying when I go there again.

[TonyB]

1 hour ago, cjay said:

Where is Lam Hoac located?

 I just noticed you live in Richland Wa.

 I used to motocross at the horn rapids race track near there.

 I lived in the Walla Walla area for a few years, and I still have relatives and friends there. I still get over that way sometimes. Lots of nice open areas and farm fields to fly in around that area for sure. I will be bringing my kites with me and do some flying when I go there again.

He's in BC, Canada.

If you do visit I'd be happy to let you fly the few kites I do own so you can form your own opinions (weather permitting of course - many times the winds are nearly non-existent here).

[cjay]

4 minutes ago, TonyB said:

If you do visit I'd be happy to let you fly the few kites I do own so you can form your own opinions

I appreciate the offer. I think it's best that I don't fly anyone's expensive kites just yet until I get some more hours of practice in.

I would certainly bring my kite and go flying with you when I am over that way though. I have been waiting for it to cool down before making a trip over there.

 

8 minutes ago, TonyB said:

many times the winds are nearly non-existent here

Funny thing is when I used to wakeboard on the Columbia down by Wallula, we would be bummed out when the wind would come up, and of course it would when you didn't want it to. But then we would just go out and blast around on the jet skis.

There is an area I used to ride called Juniper Dunes Ohv area. It is up the Snake river and to the north. I know that there is a wilderness dunes area out there also that I have always wanted to hike out to. Maybe I will have to take a kite out there, it is fairly remote.

[SparkieRob]

Being afraid to fly expensive kites is a really good reason for looking at second hand ones. If they have been around the block a bit, you will be less worried about hurting them and enjoy yourself more.

My tip. Set a budget and look for s used full size. Even ask if anyone has one they don't fly much. When I first got into kites I was shocked at how much people would spend on a kite, but now it just means I save a little longer...


Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

[Exult]

On 9/4/2017 at 2:56 AM, cjay said:

I have a fairly short bucket list of tricks that I want to learn.

Like a slide, snap stall, half axle, full axle, and slot machine. 

However, if you are lucky you find a kite/you combo that (after some or perhaps a lot of work to get the basics of starting/landing/controlling) almost suggests one or several tricks for you. I think that this will be more frequent for a >100USD kite. I also think that it is very rare to start with a short list of predetermined tricks (leaving out so very much). How can one know that these are the tricks that will be most easily accessible for you? Once on the field it is more likely that many tricks/moves not on the list will be tried. Most fails and some few might almost work. Guess which ones which feels most rewarding to work on? Another thing that can happen is that you do another trick (possibly one you haven't even imagined before) while attempting a trick, e.g. when attempting half axels you might end up in a turtle. Yes, when doing it on purpose it is also a trick. If the turtles are reliable and the kite allows control over them there is nothing that stops you from working on an instant transition to lazy Susans e.g. With a decent kite you have more to random discover and more openings to various tricks - on your trick list or not.

[makatakam]

No one should ever be afraid of flying a high-end kite when another flyer offers the handles to him. The other person has already observed you flying and is fairly confident that you won't wreck it. However, he is also aware that s__t happens, and is not concerned with it. Even an advanced flyer can make a bad move and wreck his own kite. I have no issues with handing even one of my most expensive kites to a total newbie -- and I have done so with $450+ Revs quite frequently -- because by the time I set up a beater, that person may lose interest or have to leave. I'm gonna get him hooked before he can get away! The person who offers you the handles knows that there is a chance that you may damage the kite, and is ok with it should it happen. Never pass on the opportunity to try someone else's kite if offered to you. If the pilot has concerns, he won't make the offer.

[cjay]

1 hour ago, Exult said:

I also think that it is very rare to start with a short list of predetermined tricks (leaving out so very much). How can one know that these are the tricks that will be most easily accessible for you?

I have a reason for selecting those tricks. Because I really like the flying part where the kite is mostly moving forward,  and those tricks look to me like they would fit in with the type of flying I want to do.

I have no idea what tricks are most easily accessible for me but those are the ones I want to learn.

[cjay]

31 minutes ago, makatakam said:

No one should ever be afraid of flying a high-end kite when another flyer offers the handles to him.

I wasn't trying to insult anyone, and I didn't say never.

I have only flown 6 times, and not in many years. I just got my kite the other day, so after I get a few hours to get comfortable again, than I am ready. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I understand what you are saying though, if someone makes the offer then that is their prerogative.

[makatakam]

15 minutes ago, cjay said:

I wasn't trying to insult anyone, and I didn't say never.

Didn't mean to imply that. Just saying that most pilots are usually eager to let others try their stuff.

[cjay]

10 minutes ago, makatakam said:

most pilots are usually eager to let others try their stuff

I hadn't considered that, but I will from now on.

In retrospect, I should have just accepted the offer right off, I would have had time to get comfortable flying my kite first anyway.

[Tmadz]

Flying OPK (other people s kites) is the best way to try stuff out without committing. Kites are be like any other thing. Different models, slighly different characteristics. That's how some people bond with certain kites while others don't. It's the human condition. You really can learn so much more and save money by trying things out before buying. Experience with time on the lines is invaluable. That's why most fliers are happy to hand over the lines. If you have the basics down, you can start to feel/read the intangible feedback you get. Don't be fearful. I've broken a couple of things, but I try to make up for it and pay it forward as well.

[SHBKF]

21 hours ago, cjay said:

Which hobby might that be? 

If you don't mind talking about it that is.

Back in my early teens I became an avid Short Wave Listener.  I was using a World War II era Signal Corps aircraft receiver.  It was made by Hallicrafters, a R45 ARR7.  I used to wait for my parents to go to bed, quietly close my door, then put a towel on the floor to block noise & light.  I would fire up the old tube type radio, put my aviator head phones & tour the world.  Years later I would operate other radios including CB's back in their hay day.  I built elaborate antennas & talked skip using 16 watts on 11 meter side band.  Later I got a Heathkit HW-101. But still no license.   Even though things shifted to other hobbies I still longed to be a real ham radio operator some day.  That some day has become now & I am well on my way to passing an entry level exam.

Life is good, live your dreams, SHBKF  ...  ....  -...  -.-  ..-.

 

Hallicrafters                                       Heathkit

  

[Kansas Flier]

22 hours ago, SHBKF said:

We are actually quite fortunate that our love of kites, even at the boutique level, is quite inexpensive compared to many hobbies these days.

From time to time I have been know to have a bit of GAS. Guitar Acquisition Syndrome.  

I have made guitar purchases and thought about how much kite it would be worth, and vice versa. 

[Kansas Flier]

7 hours ago, Exult said:

Another thing that can happen is that you do another trick (possibly one you haven't even imagined before) while attempting a trick, e.g. when attempting half axels you might end up in a turtle. Yes, when doing it on purpose it is also a trick.

Good to know. Now I feel better about taking some credit for the few times I have rolled the kite up while doing a backflip. I wondered if there was a special word for accidentally doing a trick.