Zephyr

[Breezin]

Could some one post a pic or 2 of the Zephyr bridle please. Think I jacked mine up. Thanks

[khsidekick]

Could some one post a pic or 2 of the Zephyr bridle please. Think I jacked mine up. Thanks

Hopefully this helps


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[Breezin]

Thanks yes it does. Only have 2 adjusting knots. Thought something wasn't right. Didn't get over 4 mph yesterday and while messing with bridal pretty sure I undid forward knots. Don't remember how or why LOL.

[Breezin]

Really starting to like the Zephyr. Went up late morning in 4 plus for a couple hours. Very smooth and methodical in it's movement. Able to see things a little better than my other kites due to the lower wind and slower speed. Winds started hitting 12 so I took a break. Came back out with the Addiction and 1/2 hour later winds not over 4. Put the Zephyr back up on 80 lb 65 ft lines  and was able to fly pretty well. I've got a Extech 45158 wind meter and I think it's a pretty good one so the low wind speeds should be pretty accurate. On the 90 lb 100 ft kite starts coming down below 4. The 50 lb 50 ft seemed to short for the kite size and my skill set. Left the spreader in and was still able to keep the kite going in 2 to 4. 1 and down it comes. Still had to wait for 3 to 4 puffs to launch. Came away believing 65 ft 50 lb lines, lighter spreaders and good flying skills the kite really will fly in 1 mph. Just not for long. Tricking below 4 ? I'll let ya know in a year when I know how to trick . P.S I can't run very well yet but a year from now bet ya I can do that too.

[makatakam]

It takes a while to build up a rapport with some kites, but once you do they will amaze. The Zephyr is one of those. Another is the Benson Gemini. Try one when you get the chance and you will understand fully how picky some can be as far as the kind of input you give it is concerned.

[RobB]

I have been trying to learn how to fly the Gemini for over 10 years... I still don't get it !

 

I found 60-75' lines the best for the Zephyr, and 50# line is out of the question. I broke 50# line countless times before giving up. For those light winds, try flying without the weight, no upper spreader, and the bridle adjusted all the way towards the nose. I found it easy to keep the Z in the air in 1-2mph winds, but the tricks don't start until 4-5mph. Lastly, put the kite away when the winds go into the double digits, I know the rating is higher, but it's not worth risking the kite in those winds...

[Breezin]

It's amazing the difference 20' + or - makes. Iv'e done better on the Widow ng with 100' 150# and the Nighthawk with 100' 90#  line sets. As I get better I'm sure I'll gravitate towards the shorter lines. For now sure is nicer having different sets to fly on. The Addiction doesn't care !! Figured from other post that putting the Zephyr away at 12 would be wise. I've taken out upper spreaders on the Widow and Addiction. The flex scared the snot out of me.Still crashing and landing to hard. Haven't put the weight in. unless I go over 12 don't see the need yet. K&FT just called Pro Dancer on the way today . Zephyr probably won't be under 4 very often. Nice know it will though. Asked Marieanne about 4 mm upper and 2 pt lower for Zephyr. Advice was keep it as designed so I will. Funny how we the consumer always try to tweak perfectly good designs and are not that successful. Sure is fun though.

[makatakam]

Try the Zephyr in 4-8mph with the weight in, and the nose tipped back a bit. That will give you the instability to start some serious tricking. It will also make any kind of stall move easier. Stalling the kite equals almost everything you can possibly do with a dual line kite.

[khsidekick]

I can’t wait to try my Zephyr. I’ve had it a week and wind has been 0 to 2. Supposed to be around 4 on Saturday.


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[Breezin]

Even w/o the weight the Zephyr is the easiest I have to stall. Khsidekick when the wind is right maybe we could meet at the top of Vail pass or Loveland pass and fly our PDSULs and Zephyrs. Would make for some cool pics. Up there on a sunny day 10 degrees feels warm . Don't plan on team flying though. I'd destroy everything LOL.

[Exult]

6 hours ago, makatakam said:

with the weight in, and the nose tipped back a bit.

Sounds like a good way. Nose back to be able to reduce drive or do a full stall more easily. The weight to introduce pitch happiness for flare/turtle movements to my experience/belief. 

6 hours ago, makatakam said:

Stalling the kite equals almost everything you can possibly do with a dual line kite

I'd say many tricks such as an axel, tricks starting with an axel (like a FA), stalls and slides require an initial stall, while other stuff like various kinds of launches, flic flack from a flare, 540 (again starting with a flare), tip stab, figure flying, speed control, (snap?) turtles, snap lazy, card flip, cart wheel, other ground work don't need to start from an axel. On the other hand much of the latter category involves some kind of slowing down to a stop or near stop. Other tricks like a half axle or a cascade I don't know if the momentary stops (direction changes) qualifies as stalls or not.

Sorry, meant to say:
"while other stuff like various kinds of launches, flic flack from a flare, 540 (again starting with a flare), tip stab, figure flying, speed control, (snap?) turtles, snap lazy, card flip, cart wheel, other ground work don't need to start from a stall."

Edited January 13, 2018 by Exult
typo

[Breezin]

I have always figured they did. Man I got a lot to learn. Stuff looks easy on the videos . I still panic most times in center window nose down trying to flare and most times abort.

[khsidekick]

Even w/o the weight the Zephyr is the easiest I have to stall. Khsidekick when the wind is right maybe we could meet at the top of Vail pass or Loveland pass and fly our PDSULs and Zephyrs. Would make for some cool pics. Up there on a sunny day 10 degrees feels warm . Don't plan on team flying though. I'd destroy everything LOL.

We will meet up this spring for sure. Wait until you try that PDSUL. Flys like a dream in 2 mph.


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[Breezin]

Sent today so hopefully by Tuesday. Then the winds probably won't go below 10 till April . I'll be ready though .

[makatakam]

4 hours ago, Exult said:

Sounds like a good way. Nose back to be able to reduce drive or do a full stall more easily. The weight to introduce pitch happiness for flare/turtle movements to my experience/belief. 

I'd say many tricks such as an axel, tricks starting with an axel (like a FA), stalls and slides require an initial stall, while other stuff like various kinds of launches, flic flack from a flare, 540 (again starting with a flare), tip stab, figure flying, speed control, (snap?) turtles, snap lazy, card flip, cart wheel, other ground work don't need to start from an axel. On the other hand much of the latter category involves some kind of slowing down to a stop or near stop. Other tricks like a half axle or a cascade I don't know if the momentary stops (direction changes) qualifies as stalls or not.

Any time the wing is not moving forward, it is stalled. Just like an airplane. When it is sitting on the ground it is stalled, so even to launch you start from a stall.

[Breezin]

Good that means I can stall pretty good.

[Exult]

I'd say that a wing is stalled when the lift coefficient decreases (lift gets much reduced) when angle of attack (which might be different from nose angle from bridle settings) increases. The reduction of lift is due to separation of flow from most of the "upper" side of the wing. Now think of the different angles of the sail of a DLK and the fact that it might be rotating e.g. in a turn making the direction of the "local apparent wind" to change along the kite. Yes it is more than very likely that you have a stalled flow somewhere on the kite as it tumbles around during a slack line trick and perhaps even during a sharp turn - this type of stall should be very common.

However, what you mean when you go out to practice various kinds of stalls is the trick snap stall, the trick spin stall or just even entering the stall (nose up) by moving towards the kite. When discussing things like if the stall is the basis of almost all tricks this distinction, a detached "stalled-" flow or a stall trick, becomes of importance.

If a "non-stall" is any case where the flow is attached to the sail on both sides all the time, I can only come to think of four cases/states of possible non-stalled kite activities: normal powered flight with tensioned lines, gliding, maintaining a fade (I'd imagine) and maintaining a turtle (I'd imagine).

On 1/12/2018 at 9:59 PM, Breezin said:

I have always figured they did. Man I got a lot to learn. Stuff looks easy on the videos . I still panic most times in center window nose down trying to flare and most times abort.

There are many degrees of knowing a trick:

• A one time out of ten success ratio with a bit a wobbly expression
• A good deal of the times with the kite that is most easy to do the trick on
• Most of the times on most kites
• Most of the times and looking good as well
• Perfectly performed as on many Vimeo/Youtube videos. 

Let these videos be an inspiration and a teaching aid, not a demoralizing comparison of flight skills. Apart from introducing/demonstrating tricks they can be useful in training ones eyes in my experience. One example, to open my eyes enough to make sense of the kite movement when exiting a fade by a barrel roll, I had to re-watch videos over a period again and again. It was so very different from the kiting that I had experienced up to that point. When I now see the awe-inspiring kiting videos, I try to put on the glasses that only lets through the inspirational aspect.

Good to hear that you are in the process of trick learning though. Even if you would not know very many tricks a few well performed tricks in combos can look good. Would the case be that you are just learning tricking and slacking lines, congratulations you are just about to make a profound addition to your kiting sessions. Also remember that slack line tricks are not the only kiting moves that can be well performed and good looking.

[John Barresi]

One of my favorite trick phrases, “low and slow”... Articulated, right off the deck. 👍🏻

[John Barresi]

My favorite trick phrase ever was told to me by Mark Reed of Prism...

”Keep your spine in line.”

However he intended it, I’ve taken it to mean using the spine as a key control point.

Pancake or half axel, watch the nose flare away until you’re looking down the spine from the tail, then make the next input.

Cascades, looking for not only the flare but also the spine facing true right or left (horizontal) on each side of the cascade.

Roll ups, same thing, watch the spine roll back and away from you, essentially like a bicycle wheel from the rider’s perspective, until it’s rolled up in its own lines.

Etc, etc, different focal points on the kite for different jobs. Fly the whole kite, fly the spine, fly the wing tips, fly the mid body, etc, etc, amazing how a simple shift in visual focus changes your inputs.

[Breezin]

When 1st starting I always looked at the center of kite. I've shifted my focus to mostly the nose. Not much success yet accept 1/2 axle. Most everything is attempt,accidental success. Working on flare,fade,pancake and turtle. Sometimes something cool happens. Thinking about looking down the spine instead of concentrating on the nose I'll have smoother inputs and less panic. Watched videos over and over. Get to flying, get excited and I forget most of it LOL. Had a neighbor stop and watch me fly this morning. Impressed the heck out of them. Not because of flying skills but because I was out in 15 to 20 mph winds 18 F temp. Then again maybe they just thought I was stupid .

[khsidekick]

Had a great time with the Zephyr today. Winds 2 to 15 constantly changing. I’m just learning to do tricks and this kite loves to do 1/2 axles and axles, it basically auto completes them. Stalls very easy in light wind and is easy to get off the ground instead of doing the walk of shame. I started out with 50 foot 50 lb strings and had a blast in light wind. As the wind picked up I put the lines it came with on it and all it wanted to do was turn left. No I didn’t check the lengths first. New lines they have to be pretty close right. Wrong the red one was almost 6 inches longer than the blue. I’m thinking I will learn a lot with this kite in the future. It’s time for a private lesson with JB to help speed up my slack line trick skills, maybe after I move to the Oregon coast this summer.


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[khsidekick]

Had a great time with the Zephyr today. Winds 2 to 15 constantly changing. I’m just learning to do tricks and this kite loves to do 1/2 axles and axles, it basically auto completes them. Stalls very easy in light wind and is easy to get off the ground instead of doing the walk of shame. I started out with 50 foot 50 lb strings and had a blast in light wind. As the wind picked up I put the lines it came with on it and all it wanted to do was turn left. No I didn’t check the lengths first. New lines they have to be pretty close right. Wrong the red one was almost 6 inches longer than the blue. I’m thinking I will learn a lot with this kite in the future. It’s time for a private lesson with JB to help speed up my slack line trick skills, maybe after I move to the Oregon coast this summer.


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Brand new lines almost 6 inches different. [emoji15]


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[Jhsidekick]

On 1/12/2018 at 11:50 AM, khsidekick said:

I can’t wait to try my Zephyr. I’ve had it a week and wind has been 0 to 2. Supposed to be around 4 on Saturday.


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[RobB]

Lines were 6" off ? That might be an issue...  I don't know what happened to QC over at Prism, but I've heard & experienced some dumb stuff coming out of Seattle. Nothing that's too hard to fix, but not in keeping with their legacy. The winner for me was a QPro SUL with the bridle installed upside down. Didn't fly too well, and I haven't had it out of the bag since.

 

[khsidekick]

Lines were 6" off ? That might be an issue...  I don't know what happened to QC over at Prism, but I've heard & experienced some dumb stuff coming out of Seattle. Nothing that's too hard to fix, but not in keeping with their legacy. The winner for me was a QPro SUL with the bridle installed upside down. Didn't fly too well, and I haven't had it out of the bag since.
 

Ya bridle upside down definitely more of an issue than my lines being that far off. I knew I had an issue when the kite was banking to the left hard.


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