Sail tension on a new Hydra (also new Kymera)

[frob]

Picked up the Hydra and Kymera, that's a great price. (Thanks for pointing out the Into the Wind promotional discount in the other discussion).

On my first assembly and inspection, the Kymera feels fine but the Hydra sail feels extremely tight. I couldn't lock the loop around the wingtip nock from the tension, it didn't feel safe to do more than put it through the loop and hook the loop over the nock rather than pull it through to the knot. The first side's standoffs were tight, but I needed to balance out the sail material to put the second set of standoffs in. The tension is greater than any other kite I own, even the indoors that were my former tightest kites. I can still assemble the kite, but there's not a single storage-wrinkle left in the sail. I double-checked that none of the fittings were only partially installed, everything seemed proper just very tight.

Is that much sail tension normal for the Hydra? I'm concerned if setting up is enough to stretch out the sail, or if this is typical for the first few flights.

[khsidekick]

Both my Kymera and Hydra were really tight. I had to slide the loop closer to the nock before I attached the line thru the nock. Haven’t flown the Hydra much yet but my Kymera is pretty tight and I store it in the bag with tension on the wing tips. Still flys great just saves me from fighting it every time I fly it.


Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

[midibot]

I just pulled out both of my ITW Hydra and Kymera kites to see if I can see your concern. I got mine earlier this year so they may be of similar vintage to yours.

As between the two kites, at least for me, the Hydra is certainly the more taut when assembled. However, I was able to assemble it without too much difficulty, and it did not seem excessive compared to other kites I have. If concerned, using just the loop as you describe might be a good temporary solution pending the kite stretching out a tad after a few flights.

One point to mention: the Hydra has a leech line going through the hem of the trailing edges, whereas my Kymera does not. This will result in some additional tension, potentially. Unlike some kites, the leech line does not appear to be adjustable on the ITW Hydra, so one cannot back it off.

(The Kymera is the louder kite of the two in my experience, due, at least in part, to the lack of such leech line I expect.)

Perhaps go over the kite again to make sure there are no excessive pressure points such as the spine not properly snugged in the nose pocket or obstructions in the standoff connector holes. Relaxing the velcro at the base of the spine (not too much) may help somewhat -- but not enough that the cross T at the base becomes too loose. The leading edges should also be snug into the nose and completely seated at the ferrule joints.

I didn’t measure the length of my standoffs, but that could also be an issue. Perhaps post up yours for comparison with others if there is still an issue.

Hope that helps a bit. Both nice kites!

.

[frob]

Thanks. It does fit together, juse takes more tension than I'm used to. My concern is more about sail stretch. You can't unstretch the fabric nor lengthen spars or standoffs. With two votes saying it feels designed to be stretched tight, I'm less worried.

 

[Wayne Dowler]

Keeping an eye on this and any updates: just picked up a Hydra yesterday from ITW. Waiting on the mail now! First dual line I have bought in 15 years! Recent festival using my Prism Ozone, got my itch up - needed scratching!!! 

Did chat with Paul de Bakker about his thoughts on the kite - he felt they have done a good job making this as he designed it.

So now I wait .........!

[Exult]

1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said:

just picked up a Hydra yesterday from ITW. Waiting on the mail now! First dual line I have bought in 15 years!

It seems to be the theme of the day to make DLK to QLK or QLK to DLK transitions (or return to) - you and @Breezin. I guess that is kiting; challenge and improvement, we do it/strive to on every session.

1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said:

Did chat with Paul de Bakker...

When you talked to Paul de Bakker, you didn’t ask him by any chance whether he plans to do Jinx or something Jinxlike available again? I have only tried the Hydra of Paul de Bakkers kites, but I got very curious after reading: http://v2.2.kiteclique.com/focus-kites-jinx-jinx-ul-first-flight-jared-haworth/

[Wayne Dowler]

Didn't ask about the Jinx (way out of my price range), sorry. I've seen only a couple up here in the PNW, nice stuff!!

PS: I've been flying since 1989, so I've flown pretty much every type of kite made. Been into quads after a stroke and a member of 2 teams. But dualies really got me started on this kiting journey!!!

 

 

 

[frob]

Yeah, I've spent the past few years flying quads almost exclusively, even though I started on dual line kites as a kid in the '80s before putting down the hobby for nearly two decades. When I stopped flying the Rev was still fairly new and way outside my price range with a job mowing lawns. When I came back to the sport about five years ago it looked radically different. 

Anyway, looking over my kite logs for 2018 gives me this:

• 29 days flying outdoor quad (and thinking about buying an indoor quad...)
• 15 days flying indoor dual
• 3 days flying outdoor dual (not counting today)

On that note, I just came home from flying and had the numbers open from updating my log. I spent a half hour reminding myself how to fly an outdoor dual line on my Eruption because I'd rather break that than my new kites, then another 90 minutes or so breaking in the Kymera. I'll likely start on the Hydra next week.

I'm not sure if the wind was too strong for the Kymera or I just never found the right adjustments. It kept making trailing edge buzzing ("kite farts") through most of the wind window so I kept adjusting tensions throughout the afternoon. Windfinder reports the wind was about 8G14 which matches the nearby airport's wind report that averaged 9, 7, then 9 knots over that time frame. With slight adjustments to the standoffs I reduced the buzzing, but never really eliminated it. I really don't want to stretch out or ruin the trailing edge of a brand new kite before it's really broken in. 

Does someone who knows the Kymera well (ahem, like @John Barresi ) know if that's too strong for that kite, or if it just needs more tuning love? The strongest gusts were probably near the upper end of the kite's listed wind range but I didn't feel like it was overpowering the kite.

[midibot]

1 hour ago, frob said:

[...]

I'm not sure if the wind was too strong for the Kymera or I just never found the right adjustments. It kept making trailing edge buzzing ("kite farts") through most of the wind window so I kept adjusting tensions throughout the afternoon. [...]

My Kymera is quite flatulent as well, in all but the lower winds. No expert, however, and have just a bit of time on mine.  I commented on the lack of a leech line as a contributing factor above.

Not necessarily a problem for me, but not a kite I want to pull out at some of the local neighbourhood soccer fields I frequent. It gets the dogs excited a bit

Then again, so do some of Lam's designs. I have one of his early ATMs, which lacks a leech line.

Reminds me of my ole TOTL SpinOff that way a bit. Some people really love that sound!

BTW the wind range you describe does not seem excessive imo. And I think the kite is built well for it.

.

[frob]

Thanks, I didn't understand the purpose of a leech line until today.

[midibot]

Most welcome. A sailing term originally I believe.  I found this simple description illustrative:

http://www.uksailmakers.com/cruising-main-construction-options/leech-lines/

You will notice the difference and effects with your Hydra, which sports one (although fixed, rather than adjustable if I remember correctly).

.

 

[Wayne Dowler]

Don't be alarmed, the Kymera was designed to be a bit "old school" and be noisy. John wanted some sound, rather than silent like most newer kites.

[frob]

Okay then, I'll de-tune the whiskers for maximum raspberries to the crowd.  

[Wayne Dowler]

Got notice it has been shipped!!! Should be here on Thursday ............. DROOL!!!

[jamesy]

what thread has the details on the discount ?

[Wayne Dowler]

No thread - go to ITW, it is discounted in their online catalog.

[frob]

It was mentioned in this thread a week ago. Both the Kymera and Hydra are on discount for $112.50, half their regular price. It looks like the price dropped at the start of summer.

[Wayne Dowler]

I guess I meant no special discount codes or anything like that. Just discounted on their catalog.

[Wayne Dowler]

Confirmation of tomorrow's delivery in my email!!! 

 

I'm not hyperventilating, really I'm not!!! 

[frob]

Exciting.  Then we can get another vote on if they're really tight, or if I'm just a weakling.

[Breezin]

20 hours ago, frob said:

 if I'm just a weakling.

Uhh I'm a weakling and I think I remember my Zephyr being tighter. Believe it's due to the Z having Mylar along the spine. Both sails have broken in really well and I don't recollect much trouble with either.After experimenting I keep the leech line snug on both. I do a lot of tip drags so both kites tips are wrapped in electrical tape. Only kite that the dang end caps stay on is the Widow Maker. As I'm progressing I find myself listening to the kite more. Especially in gusty winds.The Mind Trick vented is fairly loud. Gives me another split second on inputs. Doesn't seem like much but in higher winds it is. Prefer quieter kites but now learning something else that was unexpected.

[Wayne Dowler]

Forgot to add this after my discussion with Paul de Bakker - he recommended I tape down the little battens for the winglets. Felt that as the sail stretched and many chances of losing them in handling, it would be better to tape them down in place. I'm guessing they should roll up OK? Anyone else??

By roll-up, I mean rolling up when breaking down for the day.

[Breezin]

Iv'e taped and have had the pockets resewn at ITW by Brandon. The sewing was excellent when new and repaired. 2nd flight after repair right battan is out.Left is still intact. Still a novice so I can't tell a whole lot of difference if any.Very easy to do rollups on. I think it's more from the way I do them that loosens the battans.Still to hard on my inputs for now. The TE is lower than my other kites and I get excessive wear there also. Once again more from the way I'm flying now and where I fly. Out of the kites I've flown the Hydra gives me the most confidence to try new things and just go for it. Much like my time with the Premier Addiction it's a blast. Last time out I got out of my flying field and landed on a cactus. Now there are several little holes by the spine. Sigh I love this kite and it makes me sad to see the shape it's now in. Still flies great though. The fabric by center tee is taped from a big tear in a 20 mph wind nose dive. This winter my sewing will get good enough for a nice repair. After much research the kite  that I think will be close to the Hydra and may be more for the style I seem to be developing is the Benson Superfly standard. Even at $225.00 the Hydra is a hard kite to surpass. At $112.50 I think it's the best deal I've seen so far. It's why I have one 😊.

[Wayne Dowler]

Weakling!!    LOL!! 

Unless you got a really tight sail! I had no trouble following the directions for tightening the sail. My only issue was that one side of the bridle was tied wrong and needed redoing. Not really difficult, once I figured out why the sides didn't match. OK now. I also made all my bridle connections come off in the same direction. (Just the quad flier in me). All in all, very happy with it.

Now to go fly it!!

[frob]

It wasn't me being a wimp that prevented me from properly attaching it. I met up with John and found out the knots were tied slightly too close making them nearly impossible to come together.  Moving the knots about 1/8" made the kite come together neatly.