Corey Bell

Quadline Beginner Questions

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I'm new to the Rev community so please bear with me. Is the 1.5 the same size as the revo reflex? What are P90's? I see you modded one to half vent? Did you put vented material in? the same as leading edge material? Spared in p300? Could I use my 65 ft 90 lb lines with no problems? I am beach side so 3 to 5 mph winds are common but the reflex is hard to fly. Is this considered light winds? On the other end we have 10 to 15 which to me is also a little too much for the stock reflex, having to hang out in the edges of the window. Hope I am not asking too much. Thank you in advance.

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Let me see if I can answer a few:

Lines - yes, you can use the lines you already have. You can also invest down the line for some longer. 120' lines are the team standard length, if you ever hope to fly with others - get some.

Is a 1.5 the same size as a Reflex? Depends on the Reflex model you have. The "XX" is just slightly larger, the others are pretty much the same.

P-90 + P-300 -  rods sold by SkyShark. Slightly different diameter than Rev rods, but an excellent replacement for them. As the numbers get bigger, the spar gets stiffer and heavier. 90's are very light, 400's would be pretty stiff and heavier, 300's are sort of middle ground.

Modded one to midvent - Yes he cut out a section of sail and replaced  it with mesh Allows the kite to fly in higher winds by letting pressure out of the sail, keeping it manageable in flight. If not exactly the same, should be very similar to the mesh in the LE.

3-5 mph winds - light? Yes and no. Yes for most beginners. Pretty tough learning how to control the kite when there isn't much wind. Just keeping it up is a chore. Light wind flying is a learned skill. No flying in one spot. You learn to move, how to feel every puff in your sail, how to use those puffs to your advantage, when to glide and when to power up. How to recycle your ground, so you don't just keep going backwards. 5-10 mph is great stuff to learn in. Kite flies, you learn the controls, everyone is happy. 

A word on those higher winds - do you know how to change your leader''s settings for the wind? Are your leaders adjustable? If so, make the top leader longer in high wind. Changes the kite's angle into the wind and makes it much smoother to fly. 10 mph should not be out of the Reflex's wind range, adjusting should cure that.

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51 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

 

Lines - yes, you can use the lines you already have. You can also invest down the line for some longer. 120' lines are the team standard length, if you ever hope to fly with others - get some.

Excellent questions. Not a quad hound yet but getting there. I've got LPG dual sets at 50# x 120' and 90# x 125". The last month, month and a half my stock dyneema lines have been really getting on my nerves. Year ago wouldn't really have noticed the substantial difference. Now it is getting to really be a pain in light wind tricking close to the ground. Order for a 75' x 50# and a 90# 300 yard spool is being shipped today. Dave even threw in 30' of sleeving. Spool at $84.00 shipped gives me a 82' quad set, 2 100' and 1 75' dual sets. I was told and put this purchase off for way, way to long. Needed more kites ya see 😧. I fly a lot in a rough area and even if the LPG only lasts as long as the other stuff it'll still be worth it. Got another kite to buy so the 90# x 120' and 50# x 65" quad sets will have to wait. Not near as long though.$29.00 HQ 130# x 100' wore out in 7 months.Cheap lines end up being not so cheap in the long run FOR SURE!!!

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Wayne a.k.a. stroke survivor, thank you for the input. I guess I can be known as the heart attack survivor!! 

My reflex is not XX. so basically the same size as 1.5. the rods being different diameter wont fit my reflex but will interchange each other? I guess won't fit because of the end caps? 120 ft lines at what lb? and with the longer lines is there a slight delay for inputs to reach kite? not seconds but any to notice? Being a newbie, hahaha at 56 years old, the 3 to 5 winds I back pedaled A LOT, kept it up though. After that outing read and watched how to gain my ground back. When I flew the big wind, 15 to 20ish I couldn't stay in the center of the window, then thought to let out top lines, much better. Still too strong and all I could think was how much stress it was putting on lines and sail!!

So is the lighter one for lower winds? easier to fly vs. my reflex?

and is the vented for higher (15 to 20) mph and gusty days?

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OK - lines - 90# x 120'  No major delay, just does take some time to get used to.

Rods - SkyShark will interchange with each other, but not the Reflex rods. They do sell a cap on some sites that would accept the SS, if you choose to put them in the Reflex. 

A midvent will handle those 15 - 20 mph better, but that would be the top of that sail's range for sure. A better choice would be a full vent in those winds - IMHO! It really depends on how much pull you can handle. Having had a stroke, I don't need too much pull. So I get something out that has more holes in it!

Think about those leader settings as a manual transmission in your car. You want to set them at "neutral". Meaning to make it go forward or back, you have to "tell it" or put it in gear! You want to take out that surging feeling, that out of control feeling, and get it back to where you are directing the sail.

PS: had 2 HA's and both hips replaced!! But still flying!!

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15 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

OK - lines - 90# x 120'  No major delay, just does take some time to get used to.

Rods - SkyShark will interchange with each other, but not the Reflex rods. They do sell a cap on some sites that would accept the SS, if you choose to put them in the Reflex. 

A midvent will handle those 15 - 20 mph better, but that would be the top of that sail's range for sure. A better choice would be a full vent in those winds - IMHO! It really depends on how much pull you can handle. Having had a stroke, I don't need too much pull. So I get something out that has more holes in it!

Think about those leader settings as a manual transmission in your car. You want to set them at "neutral". Meaning to make it go forward or back, you have to "tell it" or put it in gear! You want to take out that surging feeling, that out of control feeling, and get it back to where you are directing the sail.

PS: had 2 HA's and both hips replaced!! But still flying!!

Thanks again Wayne. I am glad you are still flying after your heart and hip issues. I don't mind the pull, just seems uncontrolled at the higher winds, even after letting top lines out!

I think I understand what is for sale, the differences, the mods, etc... Are end caps rod specific by diameter? ID or OD? Or when a new set of rods is purchased are end caps provided?

Best online place to purchase 90lb. 120 ft. lines, Spectra gold right?

I know I have a lot of questions, sorry.

One more not kite related question for you. I've noticed most of this sites posts are old, 4, 5, 6, or more years old and many photos and videos won't display because of this. 10 years ago looks to be it's glory days. It's not a really expensive hobby, most I have owned over the years have held up really well so they last a good long while, I don't see how mini recessions or market crashes over the years can be a major factor in peoples decisions to purchase or fly a kite. Oh yea my question... Did I miss something?

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Can't put a specific age on them, the SLE type line has been around a long time and might still be sold.

Caps - the caps on the kite are all that is needed, no need to buy new for each type. SkyShark and the Rev 1/4" rods will all fit Rev caps. Stay away from that 7/16th" SLE rod set, they don't flex well and hurt control.

2 lines are popular, both Spectra - LPG (Laser Pro Gold) + SkyBond. SkyBond is distinguished by its yellow color, LPG is white. There is also a line sold thru Ocean Shores Kites. He doesn't have a name on it, The others can be gotten at places like - The Kite Shoppe, Kite Connection, A Wind of Change (AWOC), Into the Wind (ITW), Flying Things, or Ocean Shores Kites. Have done business with  all of them - no issues. Shop for best deals. Will say that Theresa at the Kite Shoppe has some of the most equal line sets I've found, most of the rest have needed some small adjustments.

Yep, a lot of info can be old, but there are current posts always going on. If a question arises, ask!

 

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Thank you again Wayne.

1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said:

Can't put a specific age on them, the SLE type line has been around a long time and might still be sold.

Caps - the caps on the kite are all that is needed, no need to buy new for each type. SkyShark and the Rev 1/4" rods will all fit Rev caps. Stay away from that 7/16th" SLE rod set, they don't flex well and hurt control.

2 lines are popular, both Spectra - LPG (Laser Pro Gold) + SkyBond. SkyBond is distinguished by its yellow color, LPG is white. There is also a line sold thru Ocean Shores Kites. He doesn't have a name on it, The others can be gotten at places like - The Kite Shoppe, Kite Connection, A Wind of Change (AWOC), Into the Wind (ITW), Flying Things, or Ocean Shores Kites. Have done business with  all of them - no issues. Shop for best deals. Will say that Theresa at the Kite Shoppe has some of the most equal line sets I've found, most of the rest have needed some small adjustments.

Yep, a lot of info can be old, but there are current posts always going on. If a question arises, ask!

 

Thank you again Wayne

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I find the longer lines really put the kite in slow motion. I usually  fly in lighter winds and prefer lighter lines. I like flying on 50# × 50' lines, when I  switch to 90# x 90' I have to slow down the inputs. Longer lines "could" be easier to learn on, but I  find there's  to much sag in the brake lines. If you aren't paying close attention when the slack snaps out the kite is oversterring and out of control. I'd like to put together a set of 50# tops and 35# bottoms just to test the brake line drag/sag theory. 

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9 hours ago, DTill said:

I find the longer lines really put the kite in slow motion. I usually  fly in lighter winds and prefer lighter lines. I like flying on 50# × 50' lines, when I  switch to 90# x 90' I have to slow down the inputs. Longer lines "could" be easier to learn on, but I  find there's  to much sag in the brake lines. If you aren't paying close attention when the slack snaps out the kite is oversterring and out of control. I'd like to put together a set of 50# tops and 35# bottoms just to test the brake line drag/sag theory. 

My fear as I am a noob, as I don't have the "feel" quite yet. Your theory on different # lines will be interesting. Keep me posted.

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16 hours ago, DTill said:

Longer lines "could" be easier to learn on, but I  find there's  to much sag in the brake lines.

This may simply be an issue caused by not using enough brake in the settings. Are your upper handle leaders about seven inches longer than the bottoms and your lines are attached to the third or so knot from the end? Depending on conditions and wind speed you might not have the sail as square to the wind as it should be. Try letting the top lines out a couple of knots and see it that takes some of the slack out of the brake lines. This will also tame down the kite so it doesn't go shooting off on its own when a gust hits.

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5 hours ago, makatakam said:

This may simply be an issue caused by not using enough brake in the settings. Are your upper handle leaders about seven inches longer than the bottoms and your lines are attached to the third or so knot from the end? Depending on conditions and wind speed you might not have the sail as square to the wind as it should be. Try letting the top lines out a couple of knots and see it that takes some of the slack out of the brake lines. This will also tame down the kite so it doesn't go shooting off on its own when a gust hits.

What??  7 inches longer???  This is what mine looks like now? Today 7 to 9 mph, flew ok, seems to want to fall out of sky at times when the wind drops. I moved the tops out when the wind was 12 to 15. both leaders are same 3 to 4 inches. winds more like 4 to 7.

One thing I did learn is cold winter breeze "feels" like it blows harder. If that makes sense? Remember I am flying the Reflex EXP with springs engaged

revo handle.jpg

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I know it seems counter to the way you would think but you really do need some of these

20181222_204451.jpg

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22 minutes ago, riffclown said:

I know it seems counter to the way you would think but you really do need some of these

20181222_204451.jpg

I just ordered those, we'll see how it goes. Putting the top out that far just doesn't look like it will help. I figured the rev falling out of the sky was a combination of too much brake and too little wind. 

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@Corey Bell I split this off to its own topic to allow the discussion to continue long after the kite for sale has sold.. We typically lock those topics after the sale is complete and your questions are both relevant and great examples of information most quad newbies seek.

 

13 minutes ago, Corey Bell said:

I just ordered those, we'll see how it goes. Putting the top out that far just doesn't look like it will help. I figured the rev falling out of the sky was a combination of too much brake and too little wind. 

I know it's crazy but the more your skills progress the more brake you will need.  The most common rule of thumb is using the last knot on the top leader and trying to take off.. If you can't take off come back one knot until you can take off and fly a bit.. Fly for an hour and try the last knot again again. You'll notice that you will gradually move farther and farther out on the top leaders as your skills progress. As crazy as it sounds, more brake is the end goal to allow you maximum control. As you learn to load the sail, these adjustments on the leaders will become second nature.

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8 minutes ago, riffclown said:

@Corey Bell I split this off to its own topic to allow the discussion to continue long after the kite for sale has sold.. We typically lock those topics after the sale is complete and your questions are both relevant and great examples of information most quad newbies seek.

 

I know it's crazy but the more your skills progress the more brake you will need.  The most common rule of thumb is using the last knot on the top leader and trying to take off.. If you can't take off come back one knot until you can take off and fly a bit.. Fly for an hour and try the last knot again again. You'll notice that you will gradually move farther and farther out on the top leaders as your skills progress. As crazy as it sounds, more brake is the end goal to allow you maximum control. As you learn to load the sail, these adjustments on the leaders will become second nature.

I will let you know when I get them and keep you posted on how it works out.

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You will feel like the tops are way long and bottoms too short. Short leaders to the bottom and attach your lines out on the ends. Longer to the top and put your lines where ever you are comfortable. If you find that you're mostly in the middle, that's ok. Once you find a knot you are happy with, try going out one more knot and fly a bit. You might find you like it. If not, change it back.

Be prepared to add a fair size backwards step to your launch. You'll find it a bit more to launch, but appreciate the control you'll gain flying. Also watch your thumbs. It's easy to get "lazy"  and let them fall forward, basically telling the kite to go backwards. Pay attention to them and learn to hold your drive.

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Tuning should be done inverted, if it will not back-up SLOW (you may not be standing stationary in low wind) then it is a two line with brakes.

a quad should fly backwards!  Hello, that and all the cool tricks require significant leaders installed onto the bridle, or extended on top of the handles themselves 

keep shortening the bottom leaders,.... and/or keeping lengthening the top leaders until you're kite will climb vertically from an inverted position on the ground. You may not fly forward flight, you may not go fast.  When this level of control is executed, your leaders will be significantly different in lengths also (or you've added a leader piece in between bridle and flying line at the kite's end)

if we flew locally together you could try a bunch of different "feelings" on OPKs, or worse, I would change it out, even w/o your permission!

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Two minutes ago I suggested that you let those top lines out some in the other topic. Yup, by looking at the pics you posted I can say with certainty that your top leaders are WAY too short. Double the length of the bottoms would be good; triple would be better. Make the change BEFORE the next time you fly. You can extend the tops by tying in a loop between what you have now and the handles. Buy the JB leaders or make your own if you're handy at crafts. You can make them from bridle line purchased from your local brick-and-mortar kite shop or online. Dirt cheap either way. Definitely make those top lines longer and put more knots in them any way you can! The way they are now only impedes your progress, and you'll have a harder time unlearning things later. Not traumatic, but you'll think: "Damn, I could have skipped this part."

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15 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

You will feel like the tops are way long and bottoms too short. Short leaders to the bottom and attach your lines out on the ends. Longer to the top and put your lines where ever you are comfortable. If you find that you're mostly in the middle, that's ok. Once you find a knot you are happy with, try going out one more knot and fly a bit. You might find you like it. If not, change it back.

Be prepared to add a fair size backwards step to your launch. You'll find it a bit more to launch, but appreciate the control you'll gain flying. Also watch your thumbs. It's easy to get "lazy"  and let them fall forward, basically telling the kite to go backwards. Pay attention to them and learn to hold your drive.

Thanks Wayne. I did order the Leaders and will let everyone know where I fit in

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7 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

Tuning should be done inverted, if it will not back-up SLOW (you may not be standing stationary in low wind) then it is a two line with brakes.

a quad should fly backwards!  Hello, that and all the cool tricks require significant leaders installed onto the bridle, or extended on top of the handles themselves 

keep shortening the bottom leaders,.... and/or keeping lengthening the top leaders until you're kite will climb vertically from an inverted position on the ground. You may not fly forward flight, you may not go fast.  When this level of control is executed, your leaders will be significantly different in lengths also (or you've added a leader piece in between bridle and flying line at the kite's end)

if we flew locally together you could try a bunch of different "feelings" on OPKs, or worse, I would change it out, even w/o your permission!

When I get better at backwards flying, I will keep this in mind. Remind me to keep an eye on my stuff around you!! hahaha

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1 hour ago, makatakam said:

Two minutes ago I suggested that you let those top lines out some in the other topic. Yup, by looking at the pics you posted I can say with certainty that your top leaders are WAY too short. Double the length of the bottoms would be good; triple would be better. Make the change BEFORE the next time you fly. You can extend the tops by tying in a loop between what you have now and the handles. Buy the JB leaders or make your own if you're handy at crafts. You can make them from bridle line purchased from your local brick-and-mortar kite shop or online. Dirt cheap either way. Definitely make those top lines longer and put more knots in them any way you can! The way they are now only impedes your progress, and you'll have a harder time unlearning things later. Not traumatic, but you'll think: "Damn, I could have skipped this part."

So assuming all my lines are of equal length, would bringing the bottoms in do the same as letting the tops out? And as soon as the leaders I ordered (see above pic) come I will be working on letting it out!

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Yes but you also run into limitations..Your adjustments on the top leaders should normally give you your flying aspect. The knots on the bottom leaders are much closer together and are typically used to fine tune your setup if one line is a tad longer or such. I typically don't adjust placement on the bottom leaders unless the kite is trying to turn on me.

A trick @Khal showed me is to take both handles, lock them side by side perfectly parallel, Hold them top and bottom and launch.. If everything is tuned right the kite should go straight up.. If any of your lines are askew or stretched on any leg, the kite will try to turn to the left or right.  The bottom knots are the fine tune for these adjustments.. The top knots act as the rough tune.

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