frob

Only two? Many people here bring out a bag of kites that cover the entire range, from still air to raging gale. No matter the condition they are prepared.

Several, they're just not Hadziki wings, they're power kites. Flexifoil's Blurr, Blade, and Rage. Prism's Tensor series. Several of Peter Lynn's quads. None work the same as the Djinn's bridle because the wing design is different. Even so, they change how the force is distributed across the sail.

Quite a few models (edit: of other styles of kites) have them. The Rev is an exception at its price point, nearly everything at that cost is adjustable. For single and dual line kites it is the way to adjust the pitch, giving faster or slower flight, more or less forward drive. A quick adjustment for strong or weak winds changes the feel, letting you match the conditions. Adjustable knots can also change the distribution of force. This is what most quad bridle adjustments do. Visually a few millimeters is not much, but on the kite it can be enough to destabilize flight, or to turn an okay flier into an amazing flier. You can slow down the kite for a gentle relaxing cruise, or crank it up to racing speeds and twitchy control.

It's always sad to me when businesses close with the retirement of the owner, instead of becoming self-sustaining entities. David Gomberg has been a fixture within the community, and both David and Susan's influence will be missed.

Yes, comparing the videos there is far more footwork and motion in this latest than in the first or second clip, and in the comments in the video I can now identify times where even more foot power and foot direction was needed. That's why I put in those big captions. The difference is now I know. Before I could not see or feel it.

Holding an inverted hover indoors isn't difficult for me, that's about keeping the pace up to hold it aloft. This has been about making an active transition from forward to reverse indoor. My next phase indoor will be converting "I can have controlled reverse indoor", to "I can always fly in reverse indoor." I love the mantra: An amateur practices until they can get it right, a professional practices until they cannot get it wrong. Outdoors I'm confident (until I have 2000 spectators, then my brain freaks out), I can do the soda can wingtip landing, and I love flying with teams when I can be with them. My current difficulty is holding a position even when the wind doesn't want to cooperate; at SPI in the group flies I lost some control on one instance after holding an inverted diagonal hover in a ball for an extended time in light wind, and more than once had difficulty moving and staying at the very top of the window in light wind. John's calls were reaching right up to the very top of the window and I had been experimenting with adding even more brake; so even fully pulling back my 15" handles so the line and the handle were basically touching the entire length still couldn't gain and hold the position. As mentioned on the last page, doing it even when the And as for dropping handles occasionally, I spent about 2 hours at SPI pre-event working with the other Paul on some precision work, and my own sudden tugs were sometimes enough to pull it from my grip. It was a bit embarrassing, but he said not to change the position of the grip since it allows better feel and reaction. When working with Brett on quad axels, I similarly lost the grip a few times, so I think I'm there with the gentle grip.

Practice day six of this. I can now feel and see a transition. Here is an edited video this time, five minutes long, with some comments I added for what I suspect at various points. I'll still take comments on those if you see something different. There is a moment of transition where one of several options tend to happen: Top side moves in reverse, bottom side stays put. Usually this seems to need more pressure. Kite doesn't have power to move, slides down or stays stationary. Needs more foot power for pressure. Kite moves in reverse, but bottom wing reverses rapidly and swings up, turning the kite to face the ground. I have discovered I need to push forward drive hard on the bottom side while pushing reverse on the top side. Top side moves more rapidly into reverse pulling the kite back to level, or entire top half of wing pulls in toward me. Too much pull on the top side of the wing. Or, SUCCESS, sail catches the air and moves in reverse. That moment happens at the apex of a stall. If it has too much momentum #3 or #4 will happen. If it doesn't have pressure #1 or #2 happens. If I turn too strong or too weak #2, 3, or 4 happens. If I get all of them right, the center body of the sail inflates and the kite moves powerfully in reverse. In today's practice I could frequently, but not always and not reliably, fly in reverse. I can also feel and see the transition point that was invisible to me before. I think a few days of feeling the different conditions and gaining a more intuitive / automatic feel for the required motion should bring me to reliably completing the action. It's a small addition I think, but it was hard to overcome so it feels like a huge success.

For the first, yes, I believe but don't know for certain that the sail billowing a little made some of the difference. I don't know if it is essential. The sail including the leading edge are under tension already due to doing most of Watty's suggested mods. In addition, I've followed the Djinn's method of clipping the elastic on the leading edge internally, plus I've used some tubing (the stuff of 'water weenies') on the two endcaps so it doesn't slide around. The leading edge is quite curved, and the material tight along the spars ready to cup at the slightest motion. For the second, neither. I usually fly indoors twice a week before work, and outdoors on Saturday. I enjoy it and want to improve my skills. That's just in comparison to light wind flying, trying a similar backing up motion.

Okay, day four of my full practice devoted to this. Here is the unedited video from half of it. My best success was at 9:50 in that clip, managing not once around, but somewhat over twice around. While I've been toying with this reverse flight on-and-off for months, here are these summary four days dedicated exclusively to reverse flight: Day 1- 0 full reverse 360s, 1 good partial of 3/4 turn, 1 good half-turn reverse, a bunch of 'falling backward' Day 2- 0 full reverse 360s, 4 good partial turns, many 'falling backward'. Day 3- 0 full reverse 360s, perhaps 5 good partial turns, many 'falling backward'. Day 4- four full reverse 360s, perhaps 5 good partial turns, several reverse floats back to the ground. Today's big change was to dramatically increase the force I use to load the sail. Usually moving forward I can do a gentle sustained force that keeps it barely loaded, and if I let up slightly it shifts to a forward float or glide. During these successes I found I was pulling back to load the sail about 2x or even 3x what I do for forward flight. The other big change was directing the force. The top half I need to pull back in full reverse, the bottom half I need to apply nearly-full forward drive, otherwise it would destabilize or rotate around like an inverted hover or full rotation, subject to continuous minor correction. This feels different than the same motion outdoor, which very nearly holds neutral on the low-hanging side with the top half pulled back to hold the sail vertical. A new problem today was, I think, coming from maintaining the vertical direction while in reverse. In outdoor, because it's holding a vertical angle, the arms require a "drawn bow-and-arrow" posture to maintain a straight line. In this practice, the motion ended up laying the kite flat. While it made flying more difficult, recovering from it felt like the same motion as an axle, a big tug to the side and it swings back around. One thing I noticed was when loading the sail during the successes and the partial-successes, there was a kind of click or pop into place. Maybe a term would be "indoor whump", or maybe "engaged" or "pressurized"? When it hit the right combination of load and velocity, there was a notable shift that came in as a pop or click that I could feel strongly, almost as though it went from the sail being pulled then suddenly kicked into being engaged or driven, like when powered by a sudden gust but at an indoor scale. There was a notable tug at that instant. When I felt that kick in, the kite was suddenly substantially more responsive and joined up with the commands I wanted to give. Again, the amount of sail loading was roughly double the sail loading I use for forward motion. I suspect that's the point I've got to hit for this to become reliable. When that engagement kicked in and then left again, it stalled. I found I could shift back to forward drive or otherwise recover during that moment of stall, rather than dropping down to a landing or pulling in for a recovery catch. Anyway, looking forward to comments people may have.

Another morning practice, not much improvement for sustained reverse indoors. I feel it was easier giving more force, less float. I've tried more variations of twisting, lead with the chin, also lead with the hips as was suggested, and also a variation I'd call walking to the side and dragging the kite along by force. With that I was able to drag it through a half rotation around the court, but it would either destabilize to a rocking motion or de-power and drop. Even so, still not there yet. I think I'll post a vid of Thursday's practice, too.

Much like having a weekly assignment from a music teacher, those are my 'work on this next' lists. For my history, I self-taught to fly dual line kites (simple dual line deltas and my brother's power kites) starting in 1986, and saw catalog pictures of quad line kites when they came out that were eventually called Revolution. I saved my pennies and bought a few kites, but around 1994 adult responsibilities kicked in. There was no YouTube, and living 800 miles from a beach meant I didn't get to see anything in the kite world. Instead there were catalogs from Catch The Wind (not Into The Wind, it was the kite store at Lincoln city before the kite store that was before the kite store that was before the store that is there now) and a few others, with ads for mostly dual line and single line kites. I still have some of that blue SpiderLine, an early brand of Spectra line. Over the following years I would occasionally pull out my kites, and in the mid 2000's I flew with my kids who were amazed at dual lines but preferred to run around while flying my parafoil (which they called "the bag kite") but nothing serious. In the early 2010s my interest came back more severely, I discovered youtube videos showing all kinds of changes. There were standoffs on kites, and people were doing tricks I never imagined. Quad line kites were doing formations that blew my mind. I managed to get to a few kite festivals, but kept taking the responsible route of spending money on family instead of myself. I saved up the money, and bought my first quad in 2015. There were some youtube videos and the DVD that came with the kites, but it was a tremendous amount of trial-and-error. I still was searching for online communities, and didn't discover KiteLife until 2017. I was flying on my own, watching tutorials online to work on skills, but mostly have had to figure things out on my own. Only since then have I had the chance to post videos for others to view and offer tips. On the rare occasions I can fly with someone in real life, I'm generally the most advanced person in the group, with the exception of traveling to a festival somewhere, when I'm a relatively skilled amateur. From 2015-2017 I flew 1-2 times per month. Starting in 2017 I tried to hit once per week. In mid 2018 I shifted to 3x per week, usually 2 mornings indoor and Saturdays outdoor, weather permitting. I'd still absolutely love an indoor clinic, and due to location I've been to two indoor live performances. Everything else indoor has been through videos, reading, and experimentation. Which brings it back to this topic, working on reverse 360's indoor and asking for help through recordings.

Trying to maintain an inverted hover indoors is one of the things I'm using while trying to figure out what's up with the reverse 360. Outdoor I'm fine with that, unless under mental stress. I can trace out shapes and words in reverse, boxes in reverse, quickly rise inverted from a launch up to the top of the window, and hover comfortably inverted. The same with side hover and wingtip landings, I usually try to land on leaves, sometimes picking up multiple leaves each stabbed through the wingtip. My aim is gradually improving, some take a few attempts. Indoor I can hold it up steady while walking backwards, but it requires maintaining plenty of pressure in the sail. From re-watching performances, most reverse flying is far slower with less air pressure. I suspect that is because the reverse motion is relying on the momentum of flight rather than a constant load from walking required for hovering. I've also been playing around with seeing how the air flows differently in reverse. Some of my time this morning I tried the spin in place done before a catch/throw to load up the sail for the long glide. That same motion done in reverse has a dramatically different effect on the 'legs' of the quad; unlike the leading edge that wants to glide, in reverse the two legs both want to flip up or flip down to catch the air even at slow speeds, rather than wanting to glide. Trying to enter a stable reverse glide was what clued me in to applying different motions (less reverse on the lower wingtip) for my few successes. Another thing I've been feeling is the nearly-inverted slide/float, which is more like a long glide. It is still mostly forward motion, but closer to inverted that I hoped it might help develop the right sensations. It is likely some subtlety I'm missing, subtly changing tension on one handle, feeling a minor difference in motion, needing slightly different tension. Just like the struggles I had with outdoor inverted flight, finding the balance point through repeatedly over-correcting and learning the edge.

I had a bit more success in this morning's practice toward a reverse 360. I had perhaps 4 successful reverse turns instead of just one. Each one used more pressure in the sail (back up more quickly) plus a bit of forward drive on the bottom wingtip, although it's probably closer to less backward than a little forward drive. With the increased pressure in the sail it felt more prone to overcorrect/flip just like inverted flying is on outdoors when first learning the skill, but putting pressure on the kite and forcing the motion into the sail seems to be better than relying on momentum. It doesn't have the smooth floating reverse I've seen others do, but I suspect that comes with practice and finesse. I didn't realize downward 180 turns indoor were quite that strongly held, especially since outdoor quads seem to prefer downward 180s in group flies instead of upward 180s. I've seen some people do downard 180s in demo flys, but it is uncommon indoor. I'll remember to avoid it in the future. :-) At the risk of derailing my own discussion a bit, my current practice topics are: Outdoor dual: improved stalls to enable more and better precision work. Yet another big thank-you to Paul De Bakker for ~90 minutes of stall tutoring at SPI. The old Dodd videos kept stressing they were the key, but Paul's explanations helped. My new goal is to get it to stop dead, like a quad's rock solid hover, and practice holding it for two seconds to ensure it is a solid stop rather than just a brief pause. More footwork and better timing seems to be the key. (More foot-travel and better timing of footwork seem to be present across the board.) Outdoor quad: improved control in variable conditions through footwork instead of arm work, and axel all the time. The megaflys showed me I need to work on stability when not flying alone; when alone the formation is done when I feel like it, when with a group the formation isn't done until the leader calls it. During one megafly I couldn't rise as quickly as others even though my neighbors were fine, during another I dropped control while we were holding position in a ball for an extended time. I think both require hoofing it, since baking up quickly with my neighbors rather than quick pulls was the part that felt different to me. Brett Marchel helped unlock the piece of a quad axel I was missing. Before I could achieve more of a jerked snap-spin, it stayed upright and rarely laid flat. After 2 days practice on the field I can lay it nearly flat during the spin about 70% of the time, and get really flat around 20% of the time. I still sometimes get the timing wrong and it stays upright. Like the other skills, the key to unlocking it was more slack gained by footwork. The future work requires footwork timing to get the slack in place at the correct moment. Indoor duals: launch-to-fade, gain competency at indoor slackline Indoor quad: reverse 360 And on top of them all, gain more confidence in front of groups. Another thank you to Fletch for helping me over that last minute terror. The adrenaline rush part is good, the performance anxiety and overcorrections it causes are a problem. For nearly all of them I'm at the point of improving an action I can perform. Those improve with practice and study. But this reverse 360 indoor is unlike the others. I don't yet have the skill, but I'm working on it.

> First have you extended the top lines in some way ... Yes, as described in the other reply. I last extended them about four months ago, although I could possibly extend another inch or so more. > Learn to do 360ies and low wind flying with your normal outdoor quadline. It takes some running which I don't like, but I can handle both on 35 foot lines. > Learn how to pilot the Indoor Rev as a "normal" kite to know its properties on ”long” lines outdoors I haven't done that. With the terrible inland winds, I'm not sure that's a good idea. The video in the first post was a morning intentionally dedicated to reverse flight. I'll be doing the same thing tomorrow morning. (I try to fly indoors every Tuesday and Thursday.) When flying indoor I can handle forward flight, up and over, 360's, upward turns, all of these quite easily. Catch and throws, also now come quite naturally. I haven't fully mastered downward 180 turns, which I posted here about last August. I can usually handle them by adding a bit of speed and force. Once again I observed that few people use a downward 180 turn indoors, at SPI's indoor show I only counted a handful out of hundreds of turns I was paying attention to. I can also handle an inverted hover indoor, walking backwards at my maximum comfortable pace keeps the kite off the ground. While that's technically flying backward, it isn't what's normally meant. That leaves me on the skill I'm now struggling with, full reverse when flying clockwise or counter-clockwise.

> How long are your lines? This line set is 9 foot, I have the stock 15 foot set but it sometimes hits that low ceiling strut on the up-and-over, and I'm sometimes sharing the space so I get a smaller half court, so I typically use the shorter lines. > Does it barely go forward at all, under only the most demanding of your commands? Mostly, but I last added leader four months ago, I might be able to add an inch more. When you add "barely" and "most demanding", that used to be true but I could probably adjust it. I've pulled it back to the point it is difficult to launch, requiring a significant pull. I'm not sure how to document, but from when I adjusted leaders four months ago here is the side view when all four lines are off the handle and tied to a single point. I had to hook them on a chair and walk around to take the photo. On the kite I've got long leaders on the top, tiny leaders on the bottom, both visible in the picture. The handles are similar, almost no length on the bottom, perhaps 8 inches of leader on the top. I could possibly add more leader on the top but it is approaching my limit of a successful launch. Already I typically launch toward one side, making it easier to gain height through an upward slide rather than straight up or up-and-over. As you might hear and see in the video, I need a significant tug (quite different from all the other gentler motions) to launch. I have also shortened the elastics so there is a bowing along the top and tension top to bottom so it takes less to power the sail, and put rubber tips on the bottom endcaps so it doesn't slide around. > Does the kite use a bridle? No. The leaders are attached directly to the end caps, visible in the photo above. > This will take time and then suddenly happen, wondering what all the fuss was about thereafter a lesser action will initiate the action desired. That's exactly why I keep working on it, despite knowing it isn't there today. I know there is something missing, but I don't know what it is. The two that feel most likely are a subtle shift in angles, tipping back a little more or a little less, or a shift in speeds either more toward the long glide or more toward the powered sail.

I'm still struggling with indoor reverse flight. After quizzing several people at SPI for their ideas, and getting a bunch of viewpoints (e.g. lead with the hips, very light leading touch, etc.) I spent all of today's indoor practice trying to crack open something for reverse flight. Over the 45 minutes on the ball court, I was able to fall back (rather than what I'd call flight) about 90 degrees many times. During the entire morning on about three attempts I was able to reach perhaps 180 reverse, and only one single time hit about 3/4 of a circle in reverse. I never hit what I would consider sustained reverse flight. So here's a link to as much raw footage as I could record this morning. It's raw footage, so lots of rough spots. The entire 28 minutes in the clip is spent launching to a side then trying to reverse. Over and over again. You can see it from all different angles if you watch long enough. What am I missing? Moving faster to catch more air? Slower to glide longer? Different angles to try to glide differently? More speedy reverse walk? More arm extension to pull a wider ark? More time on some core indoor skill? I've been watching my own attempts all morning and cannot see what's lacking.

Thanks for the amazing party, everyone. I don't know about others, but I had a blast. I got to fly nearly every kite in my bag; from the kaiju in the calm through the Kymera and Hydra on the dual lines, and from full sail to the hardcore vent on the quads. Enjoyed a night fly with my animated LED lights playing with color changes through direction and motion, plus I had my first big solo demo. And I got to watch an incredible indoor show. Through it all I kept meeting, talking, and flying with all you wonderful folks. Let's do it again soon.

There are a bunch of forecast sites, and I refer to them almost every week. Some give a single number, others a range of data. Weather forecasts are a guide for the region, but every location is different. Trees and landscape make wind shadows and wind funnels, dead spots and windy spots that aren't on the forecast. A good meter will let you know the number at the moment you measure it, but even then wind is variable. You can see how the location matches the forecasts. With practice measuring you learn what speeds feel like like by watching everything around you and feeling wind against you. And with being unable to launch or breaking equipment you learn what kites can handle. You can learn how your specific location varies from forecasts.

Yeah, they've been responsive when I've worked with them. I think Kent and Daelyn run a great shop. I ordered a quiver of that color combo from their site years ago (see my profile pic to the left) and absolutely love the neon colors. I hope the updated reflex version looks as good as the older edition.

Interesting. I didn't know that about the lyrics, but see it now. I think it is coincidental. I doubt the Beatles were singing about kite fabrics, but who knows! Sites like PassionKites, ripstopshop, and assorted other sites that see it list PC31 as 31 grams per square meter. Maybe they're numbered for something else, but as I wrote, I figured it referred to weight. I know lots of other fabrics are also measured by weight, and I've seen a bunch of ripstop nylon being typically about 45, 65, and 75 gsm. In the US there is also such-and-such ounce fabric, which isn't ounces per square yard sadly. It's ounces per linear yard of fabric, which is usually 60 inches across. I can't wait until we move to metric, because a square meter is always a square meter, but the width of a bolt of fabric is whatever the machine happened to make. If they were numbered sequentially, and number 31 happened to also be 31 gsm, that would be another interesting coincidence. But like I said in the earlier post, I don't know authoritatively either way. For kite fabrics, it's mostly what I've read about them.

Icarex is a specific brand of PC31 fabric. There are various weights and compositions from multiple vendors, and I imagine they used more than one source over the years. PC31 is a type of coated polyester, I believe 31 refers to a weight of 31 grams per square meter. PC31 is common for sport kites as a good balance of strength and weight. PC25 and PC21 are lighter but less durable. PC36 is heavier and stronger. Others exist, but aren't as popular for sport kites.

Short term? Agreed with Zuul, in a bag in my vehicle, ready to take out onto the field. Long term, would be a double-check that all elastics are de-tensioned, then laying down somewhere I know they'll stay dry, cool, and otherwise protected. But really, that's just a sad situation since the kite was meant to be flown. Retired, mounted on a wall in a place of honor for all to see.

Now the suspenseful part, forecasts are starting to appear for the days. They're still wildly variable until we get to the days immediately before, but still interesting to see what's forecast. W: 18-37 MPH, 20% chance of thunderstorms, 25% rain Th: 18-45 MPH, 10% chance of rain F: 5-16 MPH, 25% chance of rain Sa: 17-40 MPH, 5% chance of rain Su: 13-29 MPH, 3% chance of thunderstorms, 5% chance of rain. The thunderstorm risks stink, but at least there will plenty of wind. The HV may even get some quality air time. @DTill I hope your beautiful pinstripe kite bag has gear for it. I seem to recall reading higher wind kites may still be a gap for you. When we meet upon the sand -- I'm sure we will -- if you need to borrow something speak up. While I don't have much duplicate gear in the high wind range, it's fun to see the HV and XV Djinn together midair.

Old ones exist, but it is a discontinued model. It is akin to asking about buying a new 2015 vehicle. You can hunt down lightly used ones, and a store might have an old one gathering dust rather than sold, but they are no longer produced and becoming ever less available. Read this post. For only a little more than those used to cost, get a Djinn. They're like the B Series Pro, but a bit better, with better fasteners and metal end caps, a bit more responsive, more high wind options, etc.

I wish I could take more days off work and afford hotels for that long. Mid-day 29th through late on the 2nd. Even though the festival is Friday and Saturday, there is casual flying there on Sunday and later. I'll stay as late as I can, but will need to leave before sundown to get back to real life.