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I really appreciate all the discussion so far. I could easily be the stereotypical nerd with a pocket protector and taped-up glasses, monotone speech, etc. I'm one of the people who is seldom invited to the fun parties, often I don't see what's funny about most 'blue collar jokes', and struggle to see what most people find fun even when it is right in front of my eyes. I suspect that's part of why I'm having a hard time with this. I think maybe an alternative title to the topic might have evolved to "How do I change the nerd into the popular kid?" Agreed. So many people have distinctive motions as they fly. People range from zen-like slow motions, to dance styles that would fit with disco lights, dances that could fit in a ballet or broadway show, to full-body contortions trying to tug on the lines performed either slowly like yoga or quickly like flailing. While it isn't part of a competition scoring, their personal flair certainly has potential to boost the 'wow' factor. I suspect some of that comes with either natural charisma or learning how to actually dance, but having not much of either I don't know for certain. Graceful, lithe motion certainly plays well to the crowds. Even when flying a great performance, those who stand mostly in position tend to have less of a wow, some is due to not changing the sail loading, but I think there is a strong personality factor. That's certainly something I need to work on. Maybe it would go under a label like showmanship, not of the kite but of the pilot. Good list, and I like your variations to them. You're right that the formations are scène à faire, they are standard across everyone who flies and they're what needs to be done, they've been included in the international compulsory books, and for me personally flying them seems like standard motions to me now. I struggled with bicycle turns and traveling bicycles for a while, but a bit of practice got those added to my collection. I still struggle with a few of the Master-level compulsories, but that isn't holding me back from the wow factor. I've seen people with less skill and less precision have more of those moments of delight. Thinking back I had not really noticed that before, but after seeing other pilots do them normally your backward variations add some excitement to the shows and demos. I like your thoughts on the throw/catch. I can do it indoors (it's an essential alternative to spending time resetting the kite) and outdoors on 30', but I cannot imagine actually doing it on 120's. Just thinking about it makes me cringe at the risk of loops/tangles in the lines. I've seen the catch done at some demos, but how on earth would you do that as a throw?! When I first saw it I thought it was gimmicky. My analytical brain still struggles to make the connection for it. Even though I struggle with the appeal for myself (my nerd side cringes as it chews up the endcaps on concrete) I've seen it charm and entertain so many people that I picked up kite walking and I use it when near people, especially kids. It is safe because you're not up over their heads, and it is quite easy to do. While I don't personally feel the fun behind it, I do get the joy of seeing the smiles and laughs from other people. The same thing with 'waving' at people, giving quick alternating tugs while inverted and either midair or parked on the ground. People like it, I don't intuitively feel the draw but I can see people enjoy it. I'm not familiar with that term. I know axels (but struggle with performing them), I know flick-flacks as a great way for me to do the walk of shame after the kite depowers and won't recover, but I don't know what you mean by clam-shell. This is something I'm already okay with. While I enjoy flying for myself, it's very zen-like and calming, I absolutely love having an audience to play with. I often struggle with keeping and holding that audience, but I love engaging with them while it lasts. I'm hoping these moments of delight and pop point ideas can help with that. In any event, I've got a list of ways to improve, you have all helped a bunch. My list so far, although it is probably more about personal improvement rather than generally applicable elements: Learn a small number of demo-able songs extremely well, so I can plan or predict 'pop points'. Right now I play a Pandora channel that goes through perhaps a hundred songs, I need to find one and say "THIS is my demo song". Continue to pay attention to general beats and flow of songs, to take stronger advantage of 'pop points'. Currently I count along with the beats like '1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, POP!', pushing this further will take some intentional efforts. Since I can fly the standard formations and patterns, look for opportunities to NOT do them. This is especially true if someone else also does them, such as doing them backwards or otherwise differently from how others do them. This doesn't take much additional intent or mindfulness. Become more mindful of my own body's showmanship and my personal dance, at least until I'm more comfortable with it. This one will require some more videos. Continue studies on tricks, things like flick-flacks, glides, and axels. I'm not really skilled with them, but they are popular and they can be used at pop points. Continue studies on difficult conditions, particularly low wind outdoors. (While watching people try to fly in the dead air at AKA Grand Nationals last year, JB quipped that flying in the calm air was perfect for grand nationals, it helped separate the men from the boys. Unlike everyone else, when he was out of ground during his compulsories due to very calm air, he ran a 360 on his long lines to recover ground, then continued.) This Saturday's forecast is for 1-3 mph most of the day so I removed kite flying from my calendar, maybe I need to put it back on and suffer through it. Find more opportunities for urban flying. My few attempts so far usually end with frustration due to cross-winds, having a breeze that completely reverses directions or dies without warning.

I'm having fun and doing what I enjoy. But when I see what I've done, either by being mindful of it or by recording videos, it doesn't have a "wow" factor. Again, it isn't that I'm not having fun. It is that I want to help others see a "wow" factor, and I want to have that myself. I'm a left-brained highly analytical engineer. I can describe a dozen different ways to sort things without even warming up, and I've forgotten more data structures and algorithms than most people have ever known. But when it comes to artistic things like dancing with the kite, I struggle. Anything "freestyle" is abysmal for me. Even with my daughters, crank up the tunes and while they're dancing to whatever it is that comes into their head, I can't dance (and they tell me so). I can play music, I'm a great pianist and organist. I can feel the music, I can replay the music and add my own emotion to it, but I cannot create something new. I struggle with the creating side. When I fly a kite I can count out the beat, and I can feel that I want to create something with it, but I don't have it in me right now. When I fly I do have fun, I have a blast. I can hear a beat, know that something is coming up, and do a box in time with the music. I know a rise is coming, so I can do a ladder or wingtip climb. I know a slow drawdown is coming so I can do a similar move. But they don't have a "wow" factor. I might have someone stop for a minute or two at the park, then walk on. I've had times when I play with people following actions I've seen others use. Particularly if I'm near a sidewalk and some kids are walking by, I can land the kite and do the little walk or hops, that draws a smile. Sometimes I can do a dive-stop, followed by a bicycle then back to the top, that gets a moment. But that's about it for 'wow', and it certainly isn't during actual flying. If asking about choreography isn't the right question, what is? How do I go from simple "washing the car" style flying, where it looks like I'm going through all the correct motions to get the job done yet it still isn't exciting, to demo-style flying full of "wow" moments? I don't have the artistic showmanship side in my personality, I'm not naturally charismatic nor dancing nor nimble. But I'm hoping I can get enough information and examples that I can still build up those moments of delight. Even if it means training myself to do them, I want to share those moments with others. That's the reason behind the question. What is it I need to do to generate those wow moments, the moments of delight, that show up in the shows?

Those are good, but they don't really address the art side. Flying at a fast tempo can mean lots of twists and turns, but even if those are performed well, the tempo alone doesn't make it beautiful. I think about this article. That "washing the car" description seems to fit for me. When I know music well I can do my own "soul flying" as was described, maybe matching wingtip turns to a beat, flying certain shapes at given times, but nothing that makes me think "wow!" I like the general guidance for showing off quad-specifics when flying quads, and not doing what others are doing. Those fit nicely in my engineering brain, remove X from the set, leaving Y and Z to choose from. But still trying to make the art side of choreography, what is going through your head when you choose them? What makes it a "wow"? That's good, and I look at shows like that. Living in central Texas there isn't much, but I attend whatever I can, and watch streams and videos that as best I can. I guess coming from you specifically, an example of the wow factors was this segment of yours at SPI from two years back. As always, those performances are better in person than in video. Great music selection, it's driving, dramatic, and hits strong emotions. A+ for that. When I look at "wow" moments during the performance, there were several where you interacted with the audience; several "wow" moments were over-the-audience glides, stopping and reversing over the crowd, or the long slides. A few other wow moments were a few series of fast tugs (where you were clearly getting a workout). Throwing the kite out of the arena toward the air vent that pulled it away from the audience at the end was also a wow moment for me. Were those just ad-hoc moments of dancing to the music, or more along the lines of "time to do another pattern, ... glide turn back, glide turn back, next wall, glide turn back, glide turn back, on to the next pattern..." ? Or did you have specific segments already in place fitted to the music, "this segment goes through four long glide/return pieces, that's followed by some rapid beats, and next comes this one really long slow draw ..." ? Or in the moment were you thinking more about trying to get up over the audience specifically, and because it was on your mind you repeatedly went over people during the segment? Basically, what went through your head as you chose those specific patterns? For others like Brett Marchel, many of his videos lately seem to be focused around axels, mixing them in effective ways with other motions. Is the thought process more like "I want to do ALL the axels! An axel here, and an axel here! Here an axel, there an axel, eveywhere an axel!"? Or is the thought more along the lines of "to the side, TURN, other side and TURN, back over and TURN?" Or more dancing to the beat, like "1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, flat, yank, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, flat, yank!" ? Or more about knowing the specific song and what patterns happen to work well for it? Why all the axels and not something else for those sharp turns? I guess written differently: Lots of y'all are are awesome performers. What are you thinking, how can I perform as awesome as you? In addition to a billion hours on the lines, what is going through your head for pattern selection that changes it from a meh to a wow?

The title sums it up. There hasn't been much on the site about how people choose the moves, one short discussion from 15 years ago, and a few stories that I've unearthed while browsing old SKQ and Kite Lines magazine archives. From the most broad perspectives it is about building up a collection of motions and choosing from them. I've got a good chunk of the AKA compulsory figures under my belt, plus a bunch of figures and ideas from watching at festivals and old performance videos. I'm not talking about doing a motion, or the techniques behind a pinwheel or tip pivots or anything. How exactly do you choose what to fly? How do you match up what you hear in the music with how the kite moves? I think this is where the art comes in, and I want to learn that art. When flying solo, on the most broad perspective slow points in music mean arcs, slow circles, and stalls. Fast usually means angles, snaps, and tight motion. But for YOU INDIVIDUALLY, what guides your choices? Why does one person choose an arc over a circle or a stall? Why do you choose to do an axel instead of a sharp turn? Why do you say "I need to do X because Y"? When flying groups (which I rarely have the opportunity to do), it is much the same. Why should the caller choose one formation over another? What is it that says one situation is better with side-by-side boxes, another similar situation is better with do-se-do/matrix, another calls for a blender? What goes through your head when you are calling? When flying together with beginners --- since when I can occasionally convince someone to fly with me I'm usually the most advanced of the group --- how do you build up interesting patterns when your copilots only know two or three maneuvers? For those who are professionals or otherwise advanced, how do you make the calls still be fun and also compelling? And finally, for fixed and pre-choreographed routines, what do you do when the wind doesn't match what you had planned? "Just wing it, and try to get back into formation" seems to be typical, but some performances seem to suddenly shift into ad-hoc moves that still work out despite the wind dropping and the team suddenly running a reverse marathon. What goes through your head as the caller? When watching videos both of competitions (and of myself), there are flights that are polished yet completely unrelated to the music. There are flights that are unpolished but fit well with the music. And there are the rare amazing flights where both the motion and the music are amazing together. I imagine the answers are unique to each pilot. In that regard I feel like an art student looking at masterpieces, being able to identify the curves and forms in the art, able to clone pieces of what masters do, but struggling to create something masterful of my own.

For variable winds often you need to mix the two extremes. A sail that has enough fabric to catch the light wind, but strong enough spars to handle the gusts. The sail will stretch out faster than it normally would, and you may need to dart to the edges whenever there is a gust, but at least you'll be flying. Another alternative if you're flying long enough is to have two kites set up, when winds start to shift land the one and launch the other. I've had plenty of times where I had both a standard and a full vent set up. As wind changes I land, stake one the set of lines, then pick up the other. As conditions change back, I land, swap the kites, then launch the other.

Can you put a number on that? Calm air of 0-3 is different from breezes of 3-5 mph which are different from breezes of 5-10, and so on. Also, you might contact Kent and Daelyn at A Wind Of Change. They used to run their store out of Las Vegas and know plenty of flying fields and the prevailing conditions for the region. I'm sure they can recommend you several kites, and ship them immediately.

That's 8000 posts on this incarnation. From reading of all the old posts, it seems the old forum was retired around 2004 and this one put up, but the old content was lost rather than migrated to the new forums. I always wonder what was lost in transitions like that.

Find some wind forecasts in your area. Some suggestions: windfinder.com, it has an hourly forecast with both average and gusts for 3 days out, and rough estimates for 7 days out. If you're lucky you can find a weather station near where you fly. windy.com, it has similar data of average speeds and gusts, but with different forecast models, and not so much of a point forecast. willyweather has both average wind (https://wind.willyweather.co.uk/nw/greater-manchester/wigan.html) and UV (https://uv.willyweather.co.uk/nw/greater-manchester/wigan.html) although if you're far enough north the UV index and sunburn are less of a concern. I also use the US national weather service hourly forecast graphs, but they won't give you the data you need in the UK. The forecasts aren't perfect, but they are a good guide to find must-fly days and days not to bother. In addition to the forecasts, having a range of kites can help. You can get kites that fly in very light wind, no wind (and indoors!) and kites that can be reasonably controlled even in dangerously strong winds. Thus even if the forecast is wrong, and you get to the flying fields to discover calm air, you can pull a super ultralight or indoor kite from your bag.

That's exactly it. I think I'm quite conservative, and there's a range where my full-size dual line kites are too heavy, but winds were strong enough I haven't trusted the kaiju in it. It's a great kite, I try to fly indoors twice a week so I've got a good feel for it in zero wind, but I'm cautious about it outdoors. I've only set it up when the wind is completely dead. I don't think I've reached anything near the limits. It isn't about pushing the limits, more about expanding the range of caution. I'm not trying to ask "Where are the limits before it breaks?" since I imagine some of the spars could be twisted into a large pretzel without breaking. Instead, I'm trying to ask "Are there more safe regions I can play?" I know that zero wind is safe. And I've seen videos that 2-3 mph is safe. I've also seen videos of higher speeds, and I'm wondering if they are safe places to play or if they're out on the fringes.

I've put my Kaiju up a few times outdoor when there was approximately zero wind, but some recent conversations got me wondering: What would you consider the safe range for flying a Kaiju outdoor? When the wind is strong enough for a full size sail I can use those, but I'm wondering about the transition zone. I don't want to discover their strength through a destructive test. Does anyone know from experience roughly where the limit is? Can I take it all the way out to when wind is hitting perhaps 10 knots, without much risk? The spars seem rather small for that, so I'm curious where the limit is.

For this kind of raffle, I think of it first and foremost as a donation to someone who has taught me in videos and a few times in person, who is having trouble and needs money. The raffle just makes it a little easier to give the money.

It's a reason flying with groups is good, and having a spotter is even better. So far my worst experience was with fire ants, getting a bunch of stings on my leg. One blistered up to an enormous size and resulted in a doctor's visit, and my leg hurt for over a week, but it wasn't life threatening. Good reminder to be aware of your surroundings, and not just looking up.

Those two should cover most wind conditions, from very light winds through about 30 knot winds. It should satisfy your addiction for quite some time. The mid-vent feels better when winds are variable within the 8-15 knot wind range, a full sail starts to stretch out in that range, and a full-vent can feel a bit squishy on the lower end of that wind range. Add a mid-vent, an indoor, and an extreme vent if you want to fly in very high winds, and you've got the full range from dead calm through to dangerously strong. Then you won't have an excuse to buy a kite for a while.

When I first got the brakes and accelerator of quad lines, it was more than a year before I flew one of my dual lines again. The control is very empowering. Even today I will always set up at least one quad, but only sometimes set up a dualie. Good luck @Breezin. Hopefully your dual line kites won't gain as much dust as mine did.

After someone tripped over and broke some lines, I went to home depot, bought some stakes and some spools of neon flagging tape . String up a line of that on waist-high or knee-high stakes between where you land your kites and where you stand. Make sure to keep your kite lines as close to that string of neon tape as you can. I found sometimes people will climb over it but at least then they're looking at the ground and notice the kite lines. The tape also works to block off an area instead of just mark where you keep your lines, I've used it for that when parking started extending on a beach over to rope off my own demo areas. It also makes a good lightweight tail that you can make as long or short as you want; I will occasionally add some neon yellow flagging tape to one of my neon-colored kites (see my avatar picture to the left of the post) and it adds some interesting visuals.

There used to be a brand of Spectra that was pale blue from Catch the Wind in the 1980s and early 1990s, called SpiderLine. I still have two blue dual line sets from that era. The blue basically vanished in the sky, which I think is the opposite if what you want. These days there are several white varieties, and Shanti's SkyBond line is yellow, but I don't know of other colors.

Potentially very dangerous to people and equipment nearby. It is possible for high-speed dives or swoops to reach very fast speeds, certainly enough to injure someone if they are struck directly, suffer severe burns from the lines sliding across their skin. Spectators should not be underneath kites nor within a crash zone around them. Anyone working with the kites, especially anyone handling the lines, should understand the dangers of fingers/hands/heads getting wrapped in lines and treat the kite lines with proper care. People have lost body parts and even died from those mistakes. Equipment can be struck at high speeds, tangled, or otherwise damged, but generally equipment can be replaced. Kites should be kept under control at all times. Large or small, kites need constant supervision to adjust line tension as needed and ensure people stay out of potential harm's way.

I don't have ideas for them, but "a couple mile's worth of line" is not typical for kites. That is a lot of line. Most nations have a maximum height limit before additional regulations kick in. In the US that's 400 feet. In the UK that's 60 meters, about 200 feet. Other nations all have similar restrictions. Anything over those heights requires clearance from the local aviation authority like the FAA or CAA/CAO or similar. Being at "a couple miles" puts you in the flight path of non-commercial flights, and 5 miles gets you to where commercial jets fly. Low-flying flights like medical helicopters or areal surveys commonly have a 1000 foot / 300 meter flight height. Because kites fly at an angle you can have a little more line than that, that's often around 500-600 feet of line before hitting the 400' flight ceiling. Also, reaching those heights will have significant other issues, atmospheric winds are different than what you get near the ground. Extremely high winds are common, with air currents reaching what would be tornado speeds if they were on the ground. High altitude streams and jet streams can reach several hundred miles per hour.

Partial deliveries and drop shipping on the rest are fairly common at all small stores, not just kites. Sometimes Revolution (and other kite manufacturers) don't have something on stock, either. It sounds like they sent an email to tell you about the backorder and shipping refund, but yeah, probably a phone call would be even better.

Knots are weak points to be sure, so the knot you use is important. People have done comparisons of different knots and their breaking strength, you can find many comparisons at climbing web sites since they risk their lives based on the strength of their knots and ropes. Fishing sites also have comparisons of knot breaking strength. In addition to the choice of knot, the sleeve generally improves strength of the knot. Overhand knots are rather weak knots, giving about half the breaking strength, meaning a line that normally breaks at 100 lbs will instead break at around 50 lbs with an unsleeved overhand knot. Adding sleeving will add some strength, but it still breaks relatively easily. That means your 90# line with an unsleeved overhand knot breaks at about 45, your 150# line breaks at about 75, your 300# breaks at 150. Obviously not ideal. A figure 8 loop is only slightly more effort to tie and has a much higher breaking strength, around 70%-80% strength unsleeved and around 90% sleeved, and is the knot most climbers use for their harnesses. If you can spend the time and effort, a splice loop is nearly 100% of full strength, and will be strongest.

Out of curiosity, any reason why superglue wouldn't work for re-attaching a ferrule? I know not to use certain types of glue, such as the expanding Gorilla Glue since the stuff can cause a spar to swell up, but I've used superglue (cyanoacrylate) for them at the recommendation of people here and elsewhere. Acetone (nail polish remover) will dissolve cyanoacrylate glue, making it easier to clean up in case of drips, or to remove an already-placed ferrule.

The "pin" is called a ferrule. That image looks like the ferrule was pushed into the spar. Getting them out can be tricky, since both ends of the center spar have ferrules in them. On many other kite styles, a spar with a single end ferrule you can push it out from the other side, but the Hadzicki wing style's center spar is tricky because both sides have ferrules. You might glue something to the end of the ferrule, then when the bond is solid, pull the ferrule out. I'm sure there are other ways to extract them from people with more experience than me. They can be superglued back in place once extracted. Or they can be pushed into the spar, forever trapped inside as you glue a new ferrule over the end.

In strong wind or in turbulent wind it can be necessary to add an extremely long tail to a kite, in weaker wind a shorter tail tail or even no tail may be best. Tails add weight and therefore stability. The weight changes the balance, which also modifies stability. Kites that twist and turn in turbulence will do it less with a tail because the heavy tail effectively says "this direction is down." The longer the tail the more weight it has that keeps the kite pointed the right direction. Kites that are jittery or dart around will move more slowly with a tail because there is more mass and more drag. The heavier the tail, the slower the kite will move. But kites that are struggling to stay in the air with insufficient winds should drop their tail, because the tail adds weight and drag. As a result there is no simple math of how big a tail should be for all kites. It should be long enough to add stability, not so long that it drags the kite down, and that all depends on the conditions at the time.

"Worth it" is always relative to the person and their circumstances. For some people it is, and other people it is not. People build the kites, both from existing plans and from their own designs. People make all kinds of wild and wacky designs and show them off at kite shows and other events. Sometimes they fly well, sometimes they are best as decorations. If you have interest in doing it, and have the time and money for it, then go for it. There are many web sites with kite plans that range from simple to advanced skill requirements. I personally wouldn't start out with an 8 meter project, but if you're comfortable with sewing large objects already then it might be an okay place to start. That's a lot of fabric to work with, especially if you've never built a kite before. You might instead start by making smaller (and simpler) sleds and foils to gain some experience. They would be easier to learn how to sew the kites and how to rig the bridles.

I know a handful of kite flyers in Austin, but none in the Houston area. I'm sure they exist, since there are two inactive people on the Member Map, but they aren't plentiful. When I traveled out to kite shows in their area most were SLK fliers. The only dual/quad pilots I met had also traveled to the site.