b-series full vent and EXP

[Huskies]

Hey everyone. 

So I finally got to fly the b-series full vent that I bought online and replaced the bridal on over the weekend.  So I guess my question would be.  Is the b-series just a better kite than the EXP?  It seems to 'float' and fly so much better.  Not totally sure how to describe the difference but it did seem like a different animal.  Now I know its vented vs non vented but the winds were all over the place.  Normal for Houston.  6mph pretty steady and gusts to 14mph.  Now I'm wondering if I should get a non vent B-series when I can find one? 

[windwarrior]

The B is light years better than the exp imho.

I have a couple of sets and the exp. I LOVE my B-series.

With that wind range, I'd definitely get a standard. 👍

[Huskies]

Is the B2 signature the exact same as the b-series with the iquad logo or are they different?

[windwarrior]

1 minute ago, Huskies said:

Is the B2 signature the exact same as the b-series with the iquad logo or are they different?

As far as I know, they're the same.

The B standard I've flown in anywhere from 5-25 without issues. Only thing to worry about on the top end of the wind range are GUSTS! If a gust hits beyond 25 then you risk a spar snapping and or tearing the sail.

[mebeatee]

1 hour ago, Huskies said:

Is the B2 signature the exact same as the b-series with the iquad logo or are they different?

iirc the B2 was/is a Rev 2 sized version of the B 1.5 et al.....

bt

[DTill]

The B2 is a 72 inch leading edge kite. Much smaller than a 1.5 sized sail. It's the quad version of of a Prism Micron. Very fast, twitchy and fun. Not for beginners. John makes it look easy, it's not. Cool kite, not a second kite more like a 5th.

 

[DTill]

If you want to buy a new B-series this is the only place I've seen one. Last one I bought from them drop shipped from Rev. The night edition would be cool. http://www.awindofchange.com/product/Rev-B-Series-NIGHT.html

[windwarrior]

1 hour ago, DTill said:

The B2 is a 72 inch leading edge kite. Much smaller than a 1.5 sized sail. It's the quad version of of a Prism Micron. Very fast, twitchy and fun. Not for beginners. John makes it look easy, it's not. Cool kite, not a second kite more like a 5th.

 

Really? My mistake! Are the B2's still available anywhere? 

[DTill]

High line kites of Berkeley has them listed on there never updated website. I tried to order one a year ago and they only had a purple vented, probably drop shipped. That would be a super niche kite, but a bumble bee kite in high winds 15-30.    http://www.highlinekites.com/brands/Revolution-Kites.html

[DTill]

2 hours ago, windwarrior said:

Really? My mistake! Are the B2's still available anywhere? 

I might know a guy on the forum that would part with his, but there a discontinued short run kite.

[windwarrior]

7 hours ago, DTill said:

I might know a guy on the forum that would part with his, but there a discontinued short run kite.

I'm going to make some calls today.

Who did you have in mind?

[frob]

Old ones exist, but it is a discontinued model. It is akin to asking about buying a new 2015 vehicle. You can hunt down lightly used ones, and a store might have an old one gathering dust rather than sold, but they are no longer produced and becoming ever less available. 

Read this post.

For only a little more than those used to cost, get a Djinn. They're like the B Series Pro, but a bit better, with better fasteners and metal end caps, a bit more responsive, more high wind options, etc. 

[Paul LaMasters]

I have a B2 full sail and the Shook mesh CR2 version, both are a hoot.  Different wind ranges for sure.  Lightning fast slack and repowered back up fully as quick as you can think it.  Here's Fletch spanking it for the first time.  All the actions of tricks and precision are the same, just things happen quicker.  I challenge folks to fly it slow and with great precision BEFORE spanking it hard.  Just show me , so here's 

 

[Wayne Dowler]

Just to clear the size thing up:

3 sizes of Revolution kites (in the "normal style"), all size measurements approximate:

Rev I size - 9' includes the Rev I and Zen

Rev 1.5 size - 7.5' includes EXP, SLE, NYM, "B" series, "B" pro, Reflex RX sails, most of the "custom" masterpiece sails

Rev 2 size - 6' includes Rev 2 and B-2

One oddball is the Reflex XX that is in between the Rev I and 1.5 sizes

Open to correction or addition.......

 

[John Barresi]

On 1/13/2020 at 12:16 PM, Huskies said:

Is the B2 signature the exact same as the b-series with the iquad logo or are they different?

On 1/13/2020 at 2:12 PM, mebeatee said:

iirc the B2 was/is a Rev 2 sized version of the B 1.5 et al.....

bt

The B2 is not a true "down scale" of the Full size B-Series, it's a novelty piece for speed and twitch - it lacks the flexibility and sail area required for consistent smooth control. IMHO

Re your question about why you feel the B is better than the EXP, all I can suggest is that you look at the details - panel arrangement, shape of leading edge, etc... All this details were stepped up massively in the Djinn, extensive details can be found on the product page.  

http://kiteforge.com/Djinn

[mebeatee]

18 hours ago, John Barresi said:

The B2 is not a true "down scale" of the Full size B-Series, it's a novelty piece for speed and twitch - it lacks the flexibility and sail area required for consistent smooth control. IMHO

Interesting and who should argue with the "instigator".....however I thought the B2 was not a down scaled B 1.5, but a B version of the 2.....same but different.... Am I wrong in thinking of the Zen as a 1 sized B then? Not to me as I just go by the original 3 sizes of Rev.....with the sail panels different, with a deeper middle panel in the B's, Zen, and Robertshaw 1, plus the smaller finishing refinements et al.

I will disagree in that the 2.....( never flown a B2, but still have 4 Rev 2's in the bag. One single panel/self vented, and 3 Sedgwick style sails)...can have consistent slow control. Check out Paul's vid a couple of posts prior for example. One of my 2's has a 2 wrap frame and yowee....not as slow as a 1 (w/2wrap) or a true 1.5 sul, but pretty slow.

I learnt on a Rev 2....thank god that and not the Backtracker....and then bought a Rev 1. This a couple of years before the introduction of the 1.5 and sorry folks...to this day I still consider the 1.5 size as a compromise between the two. Which it is I guess, however everything is geared towards the 1.5 size and that's ok.....don't get me started on line lengths.....lol. Even though I have more 1.5 sizes, I still like to fly the 1's and 2's.

btw....there is a Rev 2 in the for sale section, and I may sell one of my Sedgwick 2's. You can also find the Rev 1.5 "classic" with the B series panel layout online. Or as John says....just buy Djinn as they are quite beautiful kites.....but a 2 sized Djinn would be a blast and a 1sized Djinn would be sublime....

bt

[Huskies]

23 hours ago, John Barresi said:

23 hours ago, John Barresi said:

Re your question about why you feel the B is better than the EXP, all I can suggest is that you look at the details - panel arrangement, shape of leading edge, etc... All this details were stepped up massively in the Djinn, extensive details can be found on the product page.  

http://kiteforge.com/Djinn

I'm about to go to my truck (aka kite bag) and pull them out to compare.  I suppose that if everything is an "evolution" in kites why not go and get the 10 speed transmission as opposed to the 3 on the tree.

 

[Huskies]

OK so I laid them out.  I get the panel arrangement I think (read a lot of posts on here).  I can't tell anything with the leading edge.  Of course I've only started this journey in October.  I can see a difference in material.  Also the JB/TK bridal I got from here is much thinner than the one on the exp.  I would assume lighter.  

Just a newbie having fun with all this...but I'm sucked in....of course I asked for a anemometer for christmas, so thats in my truck bag now.

[John Barresi]

Leading edge curve is slightly different, it's more obvious between other models, also the stretch, porosity and play of the fabric play a role (B is industry poly, EXP is nylon, Djinn is Icarex PC31 poly).

[John Barresi]

5 hours ago, mebeatee said:

however I thought the B2 was not a down scaled B 1.5, but a B version of the 2.....same but different.... Am I wrong in thinking of the Zen as a 1 sized B then?

Yep, it's a Rev II with a B "touch" to it.

Zen is not scaled from a B-Pro either.

It comes down to belly proportions (measure from LE to the "v" point in the sail), it needs belly... Bazzer increased the belly proportion and made the Zen a bit fatter for more sail in light wind, same idea applied to the Rev II in terms of LE>v point distance.

[John Barresi]

In truth, I was afforded very little access to the development of the B2 or Zen once prototyping began - one of the reasons I fly something else these days, they had their chance and I wanted to improve things (to my taste).

[DonFibonacci]

16 hours ago, John Barresi said:

B is industry poly, EXP is nylon, Djinn is Icarex PC31 poly

I always thought the B series were all Icarex.  Have I been fooling myself?

[DonFibonacci]

I'll check when I get home, but I seem to remember the EXP belly being different from the 1.5B as well.  A longer measurement, if I recall.

[frob]

12 minutes ago, DonFibonacci said:

I always thought the B series were all Icarex.  Have I been fooling myself?

Icarex is a specific brand of PC31 fabric. There are various weights and compositions from multiple vendors, and I imagine they used more than one source over the years.

PC31 is a type of coated polyester, I believe 31 refers to a weight of 31 grams per square meter. PC31 is common for sport kites as a good balance of strength and weight. PC25 and PC21 are lighter but less durable. PC36 is heavier and stronger. Others exist, but aren't as popular for sport kites.

[John Barresi]

Aye, the word "Icarex" is but like "Kleenex" these days - like "hand me a Kleenex" but it could be anything... As @frob points out, there is only one true PC31 Icarex and its incomparable for sport kite sails.