trainer kite Help please. Advice for getting an 8 year old nephew into kite sports. Birth day is commin up looking at Corss Kite air 1.3 or 1.5 m or BQ4 Fluxx, hand loops or Bar and safety leash?

[Spikey]

Basic question here is what would be a good age and most important SAFE  age and weight to get into kite sports? He will be 8 years old 2 week in August 2020.

 

He is adventurous, average build, fairly smart and sensible. He is now 60 Lbs/27 kilos but has never flown kits before and I was thinking of getting him some form or entry training kits he could learn to fly rather then get pulled. Also these kinds of kits unlike the average toy shop one tend to be easy to launch.

 

But I want him safe, not terrified or hurt and not to put his protective mum (ie sis) off this so need her happy too even if the lad is shouting out 'weeeeeeeeeee' with glee going airborne on his first go, that would mean no more kite and moi in the doghouse. We need to get mum on side here at least long enough for her trust us from the cafe

 

Initial investigation has pointed to  2 Kits.

 

The Cross Kits Air 1.2m £25      or      1.5m £35      (Thinking 1.8 is pushing luck with a 27 kilo 8 year old rookie ) 

 

 

Or the 

 

HQ4 Fluxx 1.3 Trainer Power Kite £49-£59 + £8 for the safety system

 

 

The HQ4 Flux comes with a control bar with the option to get HQ Rush Safety System Wrist strip which looks to be a form of kite killer.

 

The HQ Flux looks a better bt to me due to the bar  which is more like what later kites will use so good for practice and I like the Safety system strap but its double the price, Im unemployed and I dont know how much use will be had out of said kite

 

Its likely this would be used when Im not around ie mum or dad taking him, neither of whole have any kite experience as far as I know. So it needs to be suitable for rookies and as said we are talkign a very light weight clueless 8 year old boy here.

 

 

Ie he too young, to small and light?

 

 

 

Would either of the above kites be fine and is the HQ flux worth double the price?

 

Also which would be better the 1.3 m or 1.5m  or is or too small a difference to notice.

 

 

This is likely to be used in the local park or fields as he is on the edge of town, in fields / parks surrounded by trees. Not expecting much wind

 

 

Have also had a look at the  HQ Symphony 3 1.3m kite which looks very similar to the Cross air 1.3m.

 

can you guys advice please?

 

It appears to be do I go for the Cross Kite air with the hand loops or the BQ4 Fluxx 1.3 meter kite with control bar and a safety wrist leash kite killer strap. This loops a bit better but is double the price. Is it worth it?

 

Was told to add this....

 

Where are you?
London

Where do you fly? (or want to)

Parks in North London  - Trent Park, Bush Hill Park, in North London, Also Alexandra Palace, Finsbury Park etc 

What kiting experience do you already have?
Its not for me, i have had a little experience with a Flexifoil 3.5m bullet.  I am asking for my nephew who is aged 8, 60 ponds, 27 kilos and never flown any kite

its not for me. I have had experience with a 3.5 m flexifiol Bullet.. This is to train an 8 year old who has never flows any kite. First kite to introduce and give him a taste, he could build from

What aspect of powerkiting are you interested in? (Buggying, Landboarding, Snow Kiting Kite Surfing, Jumping, etc..)

Training an 8 year old who has never flows any kite. First kite to introduce and give him a taste, he could build from

 

What are your local winds like? (Averages, gustiness etc.):

Very Low

How much do you weigh? (Not trying to be personal, Bigger people are less likely to be overpowered by marginally bigger kites and most of us want to start you on a kite that will teach you without hurting you.) 

We are talking a possible present for a 60 lb / 27 kilo boy for his 8 year old birthday

What kind of budget are you looking at? (just to narrow choices)

 

£25 - £55

 

[makatakam]

I don't think that at 60 pounds he's ready for a kitesurfing training kite like the HQ Fluxx, primarily because of the larger size and the fact that the kite is specifically designed for maximum pull. In a 5mph breeze it will probably face-plant him and drag him down the beach. Mom will not like that. A kite in 1.2 or 1.3 size will be fine as his first, and unless the wind is gusting up over 15mph should allow him to stay standing. Once he gets very comfortable with controlling the smaller kite and gets up to about 100 pounds you can consider something in the 1.5 to 1.7 meter size range. A 2.5 meter kite in a 15mph wind can face-plant a 170 pound muscular man if he's not careful and gets caught by an unexpected gust. A 5 meter kite is enough to lift that same guy off of the ground and put him down 50 feet away. Watch some videos and remember that in most cases the person in the video knows what they're doing, meaning years of experience. 

Start him out slow and easy. He'll let you know when he's ready for bigger stuff. Personally, my recommendation for him is a Symphony 1.3 meter. And keep it under 10 mph the first few times out.

And get one for yourself in 1.5 meter. This way you can fly together and you'll have the next step ready to go.

[Spikey]

Thanks

 

Bit confused though. I was thinking of the 1.3m HQ Fluxx Trainer not one of the bigger models about same size  as the Cross Air 1.2m and Symphony  . 

Ill certainly go with the advice of crossing the 1.5m and 1.8 m off the list.

If its just the HQ4 Fluxx Trainer (Not the Rush or Pro Models) , 1.2m Cross Kite Air, or 1.3m Symphony (Smallest size of all kite models) how do they compare (Other than the Flux bar and safety wrist leash rather than loops).

Thanks for the advice on the other sizes. How do I check wind speeds cheaply and simply.

 

As you say and I was thinking I want to go for slow and easy not rocket kid.

 

How are the HQ Symphony and Cross air different as look very similar if same size.

 

Can I get a bar and wrist safety leash system for the Cross Kite Air and  HS Symphony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zuul]

30 minutes ago, Spikey said:

Bit confused though. I was thinking of the 1.3m HQ Fluxx Trainer not one of the bigger models about same size  as the Cross Air 1.2m and Symphony  . 

I believe the Symphony would produce less pull at a given size.  It’s a foil, but primarily designed as more of a sport kite than a traction / power kite.

[frob]

The cross kites air is small and relatively gentle, and is a good beginning kite.

IIRC the lines are pre-attached and meant to be left on, but for a beginner it is fine. It does not have many of the advanced features like a way for sand to escape, but again, for a beginner it is fine. 

It should be easily controlled by a small body, and is durable. I have thought about getting one for my bag a few times as an add-on with other purchases as a kite to hand off to strangers asking questions, but never do. 

For £25 it is a pretty good deal, and you likely won't be devastated if he doesn't stick with it. 

There are several video reviews of the kite. It looks like it gets the job done with a decent build quality. 

[oapbillf]

The Cross 1.3 would be ideal as first kite, I have flown this model and found it pretty good !   A kite killer is not really required but there again it would be good practice to  get used to using one, a ground stake would also be useful ! 

If your nephew can get up to Dunstable Downs on a Sunday and look for any quad line flyers, they will help you and teach the basics.

[Spikey]

Does the BQ symphony have a means to eject sand and what is this feature called? sand flap?. Any other differences between the Cross air and BQ Symphony, Ie whats missing form the sales feature summary

[riffclown]

The HQ symphony does not have the openings. (It's still my personal favorite foil of all the sport foils) Turning it upside down and shaking it does the job..

I'd like a few clarification points for foils. There are two different (drastically different) ways to size foils. Power Foils (like the Bullets) are usually in Square Meters. Sport Foils like the Symphony are in wingspan. A 2Meter Power foil is MUCH bigger than a 2.2 Sport Foil.

Here is a 2.2 Symphony on top of a 2M Crossfire. Either will generate a lot of pull but as you can see the Crossfire is wider and has much more surface area..

 

[Spikey]

Quote

 

The HQ symphony does not have the openings. (It's still my personal favorite foil of all the sport foils) Turning it upside down and shaking it does the job..

I'd like a few clarification points for foils. There are two different (drastically different) ways to size foils. Power Foils (like the Bullets) are usually in Square Meters. Sport Foils like the Symphony are in wingspan. A 2Meter Power foil is MUCH bigger than a 2.2 Sport Foil.

Here is a 2.2 Symphony on top of a 2M Crossfire. Either will generate a lot of pull but as you can see the Crossfire is wider and has much more surface area..

 

Thank you Riffclown

 

 

Both the  Hq4 Flux and BQ Symphony Beach 3 are classed as trainer kites, But is one deemed a sport and the other a powerkite in terms of what you were saying about width or both the same class and measurements?

 

Ie is the BQ4 Fluxx 1.3m a lot bigger and powerful than the BQ Symphony Beach III 1.3m ?

or are we just talking the Fluxx comes with a bar controller with wrist kite killer, sand exit flaps, lighter materials, easier to wrap up and avoiding tangles and stronger build but similar power in terms of handing it to an 8 year old?

[Spikey]

2 hours ago, oapbillf said:

The Cross 1.3 would be ideal as first kite, I have flown this model and found it pretty good !   A kite killer is not really required but there again it would be good practice to  get used to using one, a ground stake would also be useful ! 

If your nephew can get up to Dunstable Downs on a Sunday and look for any quad line flyers, they will help you and teach the basics.

Thanks for the Dunstable downs suggestion but its a bit too far need something more north London

[riffclown]

I haven't flown the Fluxx but I'm not a big fan of two line kites on a control bar. (personal choice)

[Edmond Dragut]

all the kites classified like "trainer" usually are just smaller dimensions and from here smaller pull but that dose mean they are not really bad for a light person. kites are not for "AGE GROUPS" are for WEIGHT and how long that weight is less then half of kite pull really bad things may happen. forget about TRAINING in kites name, find something about pull characteristics and match that to the weight. lines rating will give you an insight of that

preferably to learn first to control the kite before to feel the full rage of 

personally for a 8 years old at around 60 Lbs (26 kg) i will not use ANY kite with bridle and lines rated more than 75 Lbs (35 kg)

I meet good kite-surfers at 175-200 lbs and more being pulled and face-plant down by a 3 M Beamer so..... give the kid the pleasure to fly not the pain of being pulled around. may be fun when motor skills and bones will be ready for some 10-15 fits jumps  but for that first must to know how to launch and especially how to land and all this means knowledge to control the body and the tool, in this case the kite.

start small, really small and progress from there depending of the conditions

is my opinion 

PS i forget to add, also on my opinion, preferably start with straps and keep them on the fists not wrapped around wrist. that will make a safety release more convenient 

[Spikey]

4 hours ago, Edmond Dragut said:

all the kites classified like "trainer" usually are just smaller dimensions and from here smaller pull but that dose mean they are not really bad for a light person. kites are not for "AGE GROUPS" are for WEIGHT and how long that weight is less then half of kite pull really bad things may happen. forget about TRAINING in kites name, find something about pull characteristics and match that to the weight. lines rating will give you an insight of that

preferably to learn first to control the kite before to feel the full rage of 

personally for a 8 years old at around 60 Lbs (26 kg) i will not use ANY kite with bridle and lines rated more than 75 Lbs (35 kg)

I meet good kite-surfers at 175-200 lbs and more being pulled and face-plant down by a 3 M Beamer so..... give the kid the pleasure to fly not the pain of being pulled around. may be fun when motor skills and bones will be ready for some 10-15 fits jumps  but for that first must to know how to launch and especially how to land and all this means knowledge to control the body and the tool, in this case the kite.

start small, really small and progress from there depending of the conditions

is my opinion 

PS i forget to add, also on my opinion, preferably start with straps and keep them on the fists not wrapped around wrist. that will make a safety release more convenient 

 

 

 

I wished I had got that response earlier as just ordered the 1.3 m BQ4 Fluxx 3 yesterday, having been told the only real difference in power between that and the 1.3m BQ Symphony Beach III is being lighter and better materials the BQ4 Flux would launch easier in lighter winds thus be easier to get up in the air but as the wind picked up there would be no difference in strength. (I dont think the kite has been dispatched yet so could possibly exchange it if its a safety issue.)

 

Over all the Flux did look better ie ,

• Bar rather than wrist loops so better for learning, avoiding tangles and wrapping up, especially if he lets go which is likely
• Lighter better material,
• Stronger
• Safety kite killing strap

I have seen the BQ Symphony in a bar version but not from this supplier and price wise it would be less than £10 difference if the wrist straps were swapped from the bar so it looked the better buy when told they would have near identical pull and I have been very clear about the weight , age and total lack of experience of the boy and parents.

The kid is 27 kilos. All 3 kite line ratings are 45 kg. and pretty much the same size. (The cross air is a little bit smaller at 1.2 rather than 1.3m.

 

As said this would be done in fields and parks, the ground may be less even and dried out but likely less wind.

That's 60% of the line rating.

 

 

Can anyone give more info on this... urgently as think I would need to know before they post or dispatch the kite tomorrow morning

[riffclown]

The Fluxx is sport size and not Meter's Square. The Fluxx 1.3 as a wingspan of 130cm.  It is NOT a power kite..

https://www.windbornkite.com/HQ-Fluxx-13-Trainer-Kite.html

You keep mentioning the BQ Symphony. To my knowledge there is no such kite. The HQ Symphony and the Fluxx are essentially the same kite. They are both sized the same (Sport Kites) The difference is the bar.

[Spikey]

5 minutes ago, riffclown said:

The Fluxx is sport size and not Meter's Square. The Fluxx 1.3 as a wingspan of 130cm.  It is NOT a power kite..

https://www.windbornkite.com/HQ-Fluxx-13-Trainer-Kite.html

So Safe? as long as not out in outside high wind winds for the little kid

 

[riffclown]

19 minutes ago, Spikey said:

So Safe? as long as not out in outside high wind winds for the little kid

 

That's a decision only you can make but if your comparison is between the HQ Symphony 1.3 and the HQ Fluxx 1.3 there is no difference in size or materials between the 2. They are exact down to the cm. The real difference is sewing pattern and control bar vs. straps. The term trainer is ambiguous. It usually just means with a bar for control. It is not indicative of size and measuring method. 

 

From HQ Kites website The Symphony 1.3 Specs

 

From HQ Kites Website the Fluxx Specs

For the Fluxx https://hqkitesusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=118021

For the Symphony https://hqkitesusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=11769160

[riffclown]

My personal advice is Teach your child to learn the wind window and know that the middle is the most pull.. All foils will generate pull at the center of the windows regardless of size.  Perhaps the first few times hold the leash yourself and teach them to let go if in trouble.

[Spikey]

4 minutes ago, riffclown said:

That's a decision only you can make but if your comparison is between the HQ Symphony 1.3 and the HQ Fluxx 1.3 there is no difference in size between the 2. They are exact down to the cm. The real difference is pattern and control bar vs. straps. The term trainer is ambiguous. It usually just means with a bar for control. It is not indicative of size and measuring method. 

 

From HQ Kites website The Symphony 1.3 Specs

 

From HQ Kites Website the Fluxx Specs

For the Fluxx https://hqkitesusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=118021

For the Symphony https://hqkitesusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=11769160

Thanks riff.

 

[Edmond Dragut]

i suggested fist straps not wrist just for safety reasons and same is apply for bar. Let say is releasing the bar in full wind window the safety what is on the bar tided to the wrist will remain connected and for the all space covered by the kite before to collapse the person will be dragged by a single hand. that is not a good option for nobody, you lose your footing being dragged side way, you may sprinkle or worst the wrist, arm, elbow ore humerus. human reflex is not to let go the bar rather to cringe to and if that is happening you are already down. 

if the kite ordered is having a bar is an easy fix but you will need some extra to buy to make some adaptations. first you will need 2 pairs of straps, second will be a 6-7 fits of line same like the lines of the kite is coming to. now will be easy to take of the bar and mount the straps instead right? good, now make another two equal lines 2-3 fits long for the second pair of straps and connect them to first pair. you see where i am going ? you will have on the lines two right and two left straps, closer to the kite will be the kid and in his back you ore another person who will test and control the pulling by weight, on the same time the kite will be controlled and take of from the kid a lot of frustration what is coming with crashes at the beginning. at any moment you may let your lines slacked and just the kid will have the control and feel the full pull of the kite. 

on this way both of you will have fun, one learning and the other teaching

 

 

[makatakam]

It's not rocket science. It's kites. Just use your head when you fly it and you'll be fine. You check out what it does in existing conditions and if it's safe let your son fly.

[riffclown]

There is a big difference in Sport and Power sizes.  Please don't let the powerkite conversation scare you. The Sport kite you ordered is very tame and quite small. Once you get it you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Teach your child to respect the kite and know that in certain conditions it CAN generate some power. Fly it yourself and know what you are dealing with. Then make the informed decision as a parent.

For what it's worth, it will be a very short transition time from scared to how can I get more pull. Once they feel the tug, they want to feel more of it. Remember to teach respect for the wind. That smile could eventually change to something like this. 

That's Chris Shultz from HQ Kites flying one of my larger HQ Crossfire II's

 

[Edmond Dragut]

check this https://www.facebook.com/alfred.leong.94/videos/3423997400943933/

how long the kite is up in the wind window seams to be ok but pay attention at the last seconds of the video when the kite start to come on the power zone 

[Spikey]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:54 AM, Edmond Dragut said:

i suggested fist straps not wrist just for safety reasons and same is apply for bar. Let say is releasing the bar in full wind window the safety what is on the bar tided to the wrist will remain connected and for the all space covered by the kite before to collapse the person will be dragged by a single hand. that is not a good option for nobody, you lose your footing being dragged side way, you may sprinkle or worst the wrist, arm, elbow ore humerus. human reflex is not to let go the bar rather to cringe to and if that is happening you are already down. 

if the kite ordered is having a bar is an easy fix but you will need some extra to buy to make some adaptations. first you will need 2 pairs of straps, second will be a 6-7 fits of line same like the lines of the kite is coming to. now will be easy to take of the bar and mount the straps instead right? good, now make another two equal lines 2-3 fits long for the second pair of straps and connect them to first pair. you see where i am going ? you will have on the lines two right and two left straps, closer to the kite will be the kid and in his back you ore another person who will test and control the pulling by weight, on the same time the kite will be controlled and take of from the kid a lot of frustration what is coming with crashes at the beginning. at any moment you may let your lines slacked and just the kid will have the control and feel the full pull of the kite. 

on this way both of you will have fun, one learning and the other teaching

 

Sounds interesting dual control like on a driving instructor car. will look into it

 

[Spikey]

18 hours ago, Edmond Dragut said:

check this https://www.facebook.com/alfred.leong.94/videos/3423997400943933/

how long the kite is up in the wind window seams to be ok but pay attention at the last seconds of the video when the kite start to come on the power zone 

Thanks but your link appears down

[Spikey]

On 8/3/2020 at 7:18 PM, riffclown said:

There is a big difference in Sport and Power sizes.  Please don't let the powerkite conversation scare you. The Sport kite you ordered is very tame and quite small. Once you get it you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Teach your child to respect the kite and know that in certain conditions it CAN generate some power. Fly it yourself and know what you are dealing with. Then make the informed decision as a parent.

For what it's worth, it will be a very short transition time from scared to how can I get more pull. Once they feel the tug, they want to feel more of it. Remember to teach respect for the wind. That smile could eventually change to something like this. 

That's Chris Shultz from HQ Kites flying one of my larger HQ Crossfire II's

 

 

 

^Thanks he is my nephew and I certainly want him to want more but not get cocky like someone who gets an early win at poker tthen thinks he can handle it with the bad boys or 1 did a 2 foot surf now I can join the 20 year olds on the 10 footer :-)...

 

 

Step by step learn to handle step 1 be fore 2 and 2 before 3 not 1 easy lets try 10 ...   🙂