What line length to get for UL and SUL flying?

[cjay]

I am going to order some LPG line sets for UL and SUL winds. I am trying to figure out what length of line to get. I have a preference for 85' line length for regular flying.

It appears that people prefer the 50# X 100' lines for sul wind, Is there a practical reason why people use 100' lines for UL wind instead of 85' lines?

Also what purpose would 50# X 50' lines have in ul winds instead of 85' or 100' lines? 

 

[riffclown]

FWIW, My experience hasn't turned me away from Skybond but it has made price more of my personal deciding factor..

 

[khsidekick]

I buy 900 or so foot spools of LPG and sleeving material and make all my own. In 50 pound I have 30, 50, and 100 foot in 90 pound same lengths plus 30, 65, 85 and 120. Sometimes space is small so the short lines is all that will work and other times I enjoy the short lines 30 or 50 ft so I can see the kite and wraps on wing tips to make ground recovery easier. Light wind has became my preferred wind for duel line. When the wind picks up above 10 or so I usually get out the quads.

[cjay]

I see.

Price isn't really the relevant factor for me, it only factors in if one place is price gouging over another on the same product.

I am not interested at all in making my own line sets. Pinching pennies and making my own line sets is a waste of my time, which is worth more than the small amount of money I would save by doing it.

 I don't feel the need to make a line set just to be able to say that I did, or to prove that I can, because I have no doubt that I can. People in my circle would not be impressed in the least that I tied a few strings together compared to the stuff we work on.

 

I like to get set up with what I need so I can spend more time flying and less messing around with making sets, and I am supporting the kite industry by doing so.

So I buy the good quality, pre stretched, pre sleeved, complete line sets,  None of my lines have changed length yet or needed anything else.

 

[riffclown]

Well I fly quads on lengths like 240' when I get the chance and those aren't common. I also have 150's along with the more common lengths. As for making my own, it's a personal preference. 

[frob]

For light wind, I typically use 50 foot or shorter. Lightest of all wind is indoors, where I have sets from 7' to 15'. 

Short lines mean a smaller window, meaning less legwork to work the wind window, which is often necessary on UL/SUL conditions.  They are also lighter. 

Nothing prevents flying on long lines if you want if the conditions let you. 

And as for specific lengths like 85' or 100', those really only matter with groups. For dual line teams both 85' and 135' are common, so they are good to keep on hand. I flew today with two novices that happened to be in the park; their Prism Jazz kites came with 85', so I pulled out the same length from my bag as I joined and talked with them. My Kymera flew at a different pace but overall we could fly together. Having common lengths is convenient. 

[cjay]

 50# X 50'  sounds like a good length to start with.

[Paul LaMasters]

no wind is like indoors, you MUST use your feet,... think the "up & over" technique

Plus, you must use the field walking around as well as that crazy slack lining.

How much room dictates how long of a line set to apply, then just match a kite to pull those strings around,

I use 15', 30', 50, 60'(50#, 100#) 100's (50# and 100#), 120's (50, 100, 170#)

Fly indoor, SUL, UL, standard, mid-vent, full vent, ultra vent, mega-vent and thong-butt bikini vented

[cjay]

I am thinking PDSUL kite somewhere in the 1-5 mph. Whatever wind range that kite flies in where I don't have to run that much, that is how low of wind I will fly in.

[Edmond Dragut]

pay attention to already made line sets, most of the time even before to use them you need to stretch them and equalize them especially for LPG and PLG Pro so...making your own sets at desired lengths will not be a waste of your time may actually be faster and also cheaper. If on discussion is the knowledge to do them i will agree: buy them, check them and you will be good 

[Wayne Dowler]

Never trust that most store bought sets are good! Closest I've found are those from The Kite Shoppe. Theresa make great sets on any length, most strengths. Highly recommend her..

[cjay]

Yep, Kite Shoppe is who I would be buying them from. Pre stretched.

Don't like the sound the non coated spectra lines make, and heard LPG is like that. Wonder if that OSK line is good. Guess it is basically LPG with coating but I don't know.

[edgerat]

All of the line I have is from Andy (OSK).  I don’t have more than a handful of flights on them yet but they withstood the initial inspection by JB yesterday.  I have a quad set arriving tomorrow from Theresa as well.  

[cjay]

A coated LPG would be interesting.

 

[Paul LaMasters]

Skybond for me,

pre-tied sets from Flying Smiles' Cath Shook,

no sleeving, extended length attachment loops with stopper knots built it.

PERFECT from the card winder, flown a couple of hours and the reversed top and bottom positions on the handles.

[cjay]

8 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

pre-tied sets from Flying Smiles' Cath Shook,

no sleeving, extended length attachment loops with stopper knots built it.

 

So they are attaching the lines to the pigtails using knots without sleeving?

I thought sleeving was to protect the lines from cutting into itself where it contacts itself.

I have only seen straps come with sewn pigtails, I haven't seen pigtails on both ends of a line set before.

[riffclown]

The Stopper knots help protect that contact point..  Paul's sets are pretty much custom to his specs..

I will echo that Flying Smiles makes great linesets, even for mere mortals like us..

[cjay]

I just called Flying Smiles and he said that the dual line sets have sleeved loops on the ends.

 And that the extended loop attachments are for the quad line sets, and only apply to that. So no pigtails on the dual line sets.

[Paul LaMasters]

you can get anything you desire,... IF you're patient, financially motivated or important lives are truly in jeopardy!

You are building a line (set) from a single strand, placing the stopper knot into that strand BEFORE forming the attachment loop.

The pig-tail is that part that loop attaches to, if will never be anywhere except on that bridle or the leaders for handles.

The sleeving is another tangle point on the bridle when throwing acres or slack, heck I have even tangled the handle ends too.  Slack where you can walk into it, not just catch a shirt button or wrist-watch, real slack where you are expected to step into it!

The knot the protects spectra from cutting itself is the "figure of eight", the center is four thicknesses of line.  In more than two decades of flight with this technique applied, I have never had a knot fail

The stopper knot allows gloves or easy removal in the dark.

Winding up the lines onto the handles simplifies the next session (just unwind to a stake, separate the lines, then affix) and eases the pain of putting it away too.

It is pretty apparent reading my posts, that I don't do anything like others have been taught.  It's a choice, not a flaw!

[riffclown]

2 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

It is pretty apparent reading my posts, that I don't do anything like others have been taught.  It's a choice, not a flaw!

And it works..

[cjay]

10 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

You are building a line (set) from a single strand, placing the stopper knot into that strand BEFORE forming the attachment loop.

The pig-tail is that part that loop attaches to, if will never be anywhere except on that bridle or the leaders for handles.

I can't visualize it. Wish I could.

 But it sounds different than what Flying Smile told me they normally do on dual line sets.

[riffclown]

This is tied in larger line to show detail.. Flying Smiles and Paul use Figure 8 knots. I do not.. personal choice.

The knot becomes the reinforcement for the larks head.

  and when you attach it to leaders, the loop becomes the pull to open the larks head.

[cjay]

Ok I see. Tension from the larks head goes on the knot instead of the end of the loop. Interesting.

But it is still looks fully sleeved, not just bare line.

Figure of 8 knots are good, I used them in rock climbing all of the time.

Thanks for the pics.

[Paul LaMasters]

the pull or stopper knot shown in the picture was placed onto the existing loop rather than being built INTO the loop before forming,.... insert that thing on the single strand!

[cjay]

I don't get it