Inverted/reverse wing flip

[Bigsnaff]

Hi!

I'm really trying to get my inverted flying down. I'm flying an EXP currently. It's tough to get it to fly inverted or reverse without flipping a wing. Is that a practice thing or a tuning thing? I've got the extended leaders from JB and I think I've got it tuned right. They've really helped a lot but I'm still getting wing flip. Any advice would be super appreciated!

[JWharton]

Over control, the only reason for wing flip, try easing back a touch.

Sent from my SM-G973F using KiteLife mobile app

[Bigsnaff]

Fair enough. Sometimes I find myself yanking on the sticks and holding them there. I'm guessing it's more of a tap tap? Sometimes, especially in heavier winds, it feels like it won't reverse unless I'm cranking on the handles and then it goes straight into a wing flip. 

[riffclown]

Believe it or not, add another knot of brake if you can..

[Bigsnaff]

I will definitely try that. I'm sensing that I could go with more brake in higher winds. I'm completely new to this so it's a work in progress. Thanks!

[JWharton]

Enjoy, it all comes together eventually. 

[makatakam]

Just give it enough back to imagine it moving backwards and it will. Don't imagine it moving backwards real fast. It won't. Medium speed is the best you can hope for and it takes years to get to that point. If you can fly it backwards for a minute without a bowtie, you've succeeded and will be flying in reverse at maximum  medium speed.

[Bigsnaff]

But, but, what about all the videos where they look like they're going just as fast in reverse as forwards??? 😭 Lol 

Thanks for the insight!

 

 

 

[Bigsnaff]

If someone asked me what learning quads is like:

[riffclown]

Well variables like wind conditions and what part of the wind window you are in also play a huge part when you are learning.  A little swirl will cause you issues and you may not realize the swirl was even there. those blessed with smooth beach winds will know exactly where I'm coming from here.

The design of the sail, type of bridle and finesse of your technique also makes a lot of difference. Some combinations  just back up better than others. And as your technique gets better, so will your speed. Be patient it will happen.

[mebeatee]

18 hours ago, Bigsnaff said:

I'm completely new to this so it's a work in progress. Thanks!

If it makes you feel better....I'm "old" to this and it is indeed a work in progress!!! There's always something new to discover and is also relative to the amount of time you spend with handles in your mitts.

+1 to what has already been mentioned previously.....OR....if you really really want to fly fast in reverse acquire a Rev Super Sonic.....whahaha!!!! Pretty difficult to bowtie that one!!!!

bt

[Cot51stState]

40 minutes ago, mebeatee said:

acquire a Rev Super Sonic.....whahaha!!!! Pretty difficult to bowtie that one!!!!

bt

I would submit that a Fulcrum would be difficult to bowtie as well 😉

[JWharton]

It looks the same speed because forward flight speed has been dialed in a bit, looks cool going forward and backwards at the same speed, don't fly forwards as fast and your reverse will look faster. 

[frob]

On 6/6/2021 at 2:48 PM, Bigsnaff said:

Is that a practice thing or a tuning thing?

Both, for now you can work on the practice part. 

For me, the biggest help was to break it down. 

I could fly up, and slowly back down. Could I back down faster? Could I back down slowly with precision? That is reverse. 

I could fly up diagonally, and back down diagonally. Could I back down at a different speed, or more precisely? Again, that is reverse. 

I could do a dive stop and back up slightly to flip around. That little piece was reverse. 

If you can hold an inverted hover, that is reversed against gravity. Hold it steady as long as you can. When you are ready, slowly back up more. As slowly as necessary, work to increase the height of the inverted hover. That's all reverse. 

I could fly forward horizontal but reverse would flip, so I did it at an angle, about 30' or 60', backing up as triangles slowly. Go super slow at first. 

Practice those elements. Look at ways you are already reversing and do more of it. Do it slowly with more deliberate motion. Hold on as long as you can. Try to recover when it flips, then try again to hold and repeat. 

For tuning, as mentioned above, more brake helps. The default Rev leader lines have a lot of forward drive built in, but reverse is the opposite of forward drive. More brakes helps. 

[makatakam]

Many designs. Some do, some don't. None of them do it all. You will soon discover that each kite is a "blend" of the compromises necessary to each design in order to achieve desired performance characteristics. Each change in one facet of the kite's ability affects all other aspects of its performance. You can't get it all in the same package. More of this causes less of that and if there's too little it won't be easy to control.

[JWharton]

38 minutes ago, makatakam said:

Many designs. Some do, some don't. None of them do it all. You will soon discover that each kite is a "blend" of the compromises necessary to each design in order to achieve desired performance characteristics. Each change in one facet of the kite's ability affects all other aspects of its performance. You can't get it all in the same package. More of this causes less of that and if there's too little it won't be easy to control.

Unless you find that kite that you really connect with in all conditions (through the different vents), then there's no compromise. 

[Bigsnaff]

Sign me up for that kite! 😄

Thanks for all the advice guys. Guess there's no shortcuts. 🤷‍♂️

[riffclown]

@Bigsnaff  You should endeavor to advance your flying to the point where the kite is the limitation.  At that point you start learning little differences in all the designs and can tailor your kites to fit your style AND your style to fit whatever you happen to be flying.

[Bigsnaff]

I'm looking forward to getting to that point! 👍

[riffclown]

Just to be a bit philosophical,  We all do.. Most of us (myself included) strive for that and only rarely reach moments or flashes of that feeling.

 

[Bigsnaff]

I just recently described it to my wife that it's like golf - tons of flubs and frustration but that one beautiful "drive" (inverted hover, axel, catch and throw, etc.) keeps you coming back.

[Paul LaMasters]

Tune all your quads so that they backup from resting inverted on the ground (leaders, add down)

hide the speed differences (only going as fast as a side slide will allow, regardless of direction or orientation 

practice inverted until you also confirm,…… the kite is easier, more controlled, dare I say more enjoyable? Upside down!

cheat? Add sissy sticks, you won’t bow tie it rigged w/“magic”
 

 

[Bigsnaff]

That's an interesting tip on the tuning 👍. I'll give that a go