Wayne Dowler Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'll throw another issue into this discussion - handles! I use sets that have been made and use the indoor bend, instead of the outdoor! That gives me a bit more brake right off the bat! I've been flying with these for almost a year and am really comfortable using them! When I pick up a "stock" set, it takes a little to regain my feel for them! For those that don't know the difference between indoor and outdoor bends - the indoor handles are bent shallower (less bend) than outdoor! This make the indoor a bit straighter (so too my outdoor) than the outdoor! I got them this way after trying a set made for Steven from S. Africa, last year at WSIKF! I liked the "feel", so I had my sets made with that same bend! I've really become quite used to them, as they give me the "brake" I like, already built in, and I only have to adjust the tops for drive! Not for everyone, but it works for me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 My leaders need to be really long (13"-14"?) on a brand new set of 120' lines, but once the top lines have stretched out, I may pull back a few knots (shorten the top) to compensate. This puts me out around 13"-14" (out on the top knots) using fully equalized lines, 13" Pro handles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 My leaders need to be really long (13"-14"?) on a brand new set of 120' lines, but once the top lines have stretched out, I may pull back a few knots (shorten the top) to compensate. This puts me out around 13"-14" (out on the top knots) using fully equalized lines, 13" Pro handles. How about the bottoms ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Bottom attachments are at the end (last knot) by default, I only shorten one to equalize if needed. But remember, I can also immediately feel unequal lines when flying, down to about 3/4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Bottom attachments are at the end (last knot) by default, I only shorten one to equalize if needed.But remember, I can also immediately feel unequal lines when flying, down to about 3/4". Holy Crap ! That's like 10"+ of brake, assuming equalized upper & lower lines ! I wouldn't get it off the ground in a storm, much less 6 - 7 mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 I know a few renowned fliers who don't like that much brake, really matter of style - how you want to fly.I do a TON of sail loading and the trailing edge flares out (creating forward drive) every time I bend the leading edge, then it stays that way as long as I'm in motion which compensates for the initially "heavy" feeling settings.That's that little "whump" you see iQuad pilots put into their kite just before initiating a turn or forward flight, creating pressure and changing the angle of the sail itself through frame flex.Get all that?Looks like Greek to me, but I hope it's clear. lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 I know a few renowned fliers who don't like that much brake, really matter of style - how you want to fly.I do a TON of sail loading and the trailing edge flares out (creating forward drive) every time I bend the leading edge, then it stays that way as long as I'm in motion which compensates for the initially "heavy" feeling settings. That's that little "whump" you see iQuad pilots put into their kite just before initiating a turn or forward flight, creating pressure and changing the angle of the sail itself through frame flex. Get all that? Looks like Greek to me, but I hope it's clear. lol "Crystal" Now back to grilling the squash and ribs ! Sheesh ! Actually, that was a bit of overload, especially for an old cruiser, like me............... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Worse - old timers like me are trying to copy that!! Where do I trade in my short little arms for some equaling those of a six footer? I'm trying, really I am!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Worse - old timers like me are trying to copy that!! Where do I trade in my short little arms for some equaling those of a six footer?I'm trying, really I am!! Just add a foot to your leaders .......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Worse - old timers like me are trying to copy that!! Where do I trade in my short little arms for some equaling those of a six footer?I'm trying, really I am!! Just add a foot to your leaders .......... Smart A##!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Arm and leg length may make it easier, but control and determination are the real keys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub706 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 I watched the tutorials, went to a clinic in Berkerley, read more comments on this forum, and now I am througoutly confued because you all make sense but....... . At the clinic, there were some master flyers who couldn't argreed on this same topic, sounds familiar ???. At the clinic, while one gentleman suggested that I should adjusted the knots to what I am most comfortable with, another suggested that I should find a setting that I like and do not make any adjustments at all after that. His reasonning was that to be an accomplished flyer, one should able to adapt to different wind ranges with the hand adjustments. And of course, there were advices on either only adjust the top leaders or it is okay/not oaky to adjust both the top and bottom as needed. After team flying with the BASKL members for about seven hours at the clinic, I still don't have any idea what works for me but I HAD A LOT OF FUN. On top of that, I also find out that I am have the basic skills to do some of the basic team manuvers. I also overcame the fear of crashing and getting tangled with other revs because no one was no yelling or screaming when that happended. Well, there were the ocassional trashed talks and everyone laughed. So at this point, I realized that I should spend more time flying in order to truly understand what all you experienced/mastered flyers are talking on this topics. Hopefully, I can look back at this post a year from now and go ahhhhh... that's what they meant. Again, I really enjoyed all the comments on this topic. I will put them at my back burner and hope to put them in practice one day. Thank you! On another note, I just found out that my trip to WSKIF is a "go" from the bosses (home and work). I am looking forward to meeting more rev flyers (the closer rev flyer to me is about 1:45 away) and learning more about their experiences/learning curve. Hopefully, I will have an opportunity to participate in the mega fly. According to people at the clinic, I should do "fine"; I am so excited, but I am not keeping my hope up. In I don't get to participate due to my skills, I will be quite happy if I can get to meet and talk to other rev flyer. Next week this time, I will be two hours away from Long Beach . Thanks again, gents! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Look for the Rev fliers to be on field "B" all week! We'll be easy to spot, ask any question, we'll be glad to check your setup out and give you suggestions on what to look for!! I will be wearing a bright blue floppy hat, be glad to answer any questions!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'll be the guy with the big mouth and matching grin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'll be the guy with the big mouth and matching grin. Glad you said that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'll be the guy with the big mouth and matching grin. Yeah, and I'll be the guy, over here on the "Right" coast.............Sheesh! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkrinor Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I know a few renowned fliers who don't like that much brake, really matter of style - how you want to fly.I do a TON of sail loading and the trailing edge flares out (creating forward drive) every time I bend the leading edge, then it stays that way as long as I'm in motion which compensates for the initially "heavy" feeling settings. That's that little "whump" you see iQuad pilots put into their kite just before initiating a turn or forward flight, creating pressure and changing the angle of the sail itself through frame flex. Get all that? Looks like Greek to me, but I hope it's clear. lol Mr. Barresi, Regarding the "whump". Is the whump completed prior to initiating the turn, or is there some whump still going on as the turn is being initiated? Does the whump flow into the turn? thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 No "Mr" here, I prefer anything but late for dinner. To answer your question, it depends on what you're doing. First, you should know we're talking about a derivative of French dual line flying, watch these arms... http://youtu.be/I_xGG-kN2dU Compressed into a single fluid sequence, here is sort of what happens in one example.... Kite is loaded (LE slightly more curved) and traveling forward... With that drive, use the power to initiate a square turn... At that key moment when you've thrown inertia into the turn, push your hands out slightly to unload the kite and let it rotate more freely... At the moment you've reached the new direction you want, draw the hands back slightly again, with authority, to reload the frame and lock into your new flight path with drive. Here is some of my bodywork, you may be able to pick out what I've described... http://youtu.be/xXESxHvDFmM Bear in mind, that was 2007 - I've refined my approach a lot more since then. Next question(s)? We may have to go back and forth across this concept a bit, as long as you'll be patient with my response time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkrinor Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 No "Mr" here, I prefer anything but late for dinner. To answer your question, it depends on what you're doing. First, you should know we're talking about a derivative of French dual line flying, watch these arms... http://youtu.be/I_xGG-kN2dU Compressed into a single fluid sequence, here is sort of what happens in one example.... Kite is loaded (LE slightly more curved) and traveling forward... With that drive, use the power to initiate a square turn... At that key moment when you've thrown inertia into the turn, push your hands out slightly to unload the kite and let it rotate more freely... At the moment you've reached the new direction you want, draw the hands back slightly again, with authority, to reload the frame and lock into your new flight path with drive. Here is some of my bodywork, you may be able to pick out what I've described... http://youtu.be/xXESxHvDFmM Bear in mind, that was 2007 - I've refined my approach a lot more since then. Next question(s)? We may have to go back and forth across this concept a bit, as long as you'll be patient with my response time. Thank you very much for the great explanation. A couple of weeks ago I was trying to "whump" based on one of your tutorial vids. I could tell I was missing something. If I can find wind this weekend I will be at it again with a better understanding of what to do. Regarding Mr. ...sorry about that, just a greeting out of respect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I know - no worries sir! Keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkrinor Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 No "Mr" here, I prefer anything but late for dinner. To answer your question, it depends on what you're doing. First, you should know we're talking about a derivative of French dual line flying, watch these arms... http://youtu.be/I_xGG-kN2dU Compressed into a single fluid sequence, here is sort of what happens in one example.... Kite is loaded (LE slightly more curved) and traveling forward... With that drive, use the power to initiate a square turn... At that key moment when you've thrown inertia into the turn, push your hands out slightly to unload the kite and let it rotate more freely... At the moment you've reached the new direction you want, draw the hands back slightly again, with authority, to reload the frame and lock into your new flight path with drive. Here is some of my bodywork, you may be able to pick out what I've described... http://youtu.be/xXESxHvDFmM Bear in mind, that was 2007 - I've refined my approach a lot more since then. Next question(s)? We may have to go back and forth across this concept a bit, as long as you'll be patient with my response time. This was a really great explanation. I had a couple of hours with a very slight breeze today. Thanks to your instruction it clicked for me a bit. Of course long way to go with the timing/consistency etc. I think the key for me was " At that key moment when you've thrown inertia into the turn, push your hands out slightly to unload the kite and let it rotate more freely." Thank you 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 Don't know how I missed all this.I remember the whump conversation.. Guess I don't feel like the odd man out now. Both people i have met run about 6" to 8" in further on the tops than I do. After seeing Johns Pic...I'm pretty darn close to that. Made some 11" the other nite..That's about norm for me. I have been all the way out lately craving more knots.The 13"-14" range mentioned is sounding like the spot for me next. I do come in as far as the 7"-8" range depending on the kite and wind....and line stretch mentioned. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201844884115660&set=a.1489023077429.2062779.1589538891&type=1&theater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 My most recent version....11.5"leaders with about a 2-3" add on pigtail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 That's a bunch of "whoa", in that set-up. What are you doing, trying out for iQuad ? Looking good there, Scott ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Just a preference. When I started I forced myself to fly all the way out...or close. It just stuck. Granted this was in 20mph on the B2 vented.....but still at the end of the 11" on a regular basis. Sometimes I move in a couple knots on lazy days I thought quad was done ? Who knows a new team may be in the works! Would join if asked but I don't believe I am of that caliber ... ....yet 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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