RobB Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 oh, certainly no offence in anything I've said, hopefully. It takes me about 2 minutes to roll out a lineset and assemble a duallie, the Rev takes about double the time due to unfolding & assembling the Rev, and dealing with an extra 2 lines. Most wouldn't think much about that small amount of time, unless you consider total setup/breakdown time on a duallie is about 5 minutes, versus about 10 minutes with a Rev. When you only have 1/2 hour to fly, that makes a difference ! I've gotten over it, I fly Revs about half the time, now. Even if duallies setup quicker, Revs handle questionable wind better. The wind is the main deciding factor as to what comes out of the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I can set up my Revs in about 2.5 minutes, if I'm in a hurry. It depends mostly on leaving your handles attached to the lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 If I get a good unwind on the lines, I might be able to do it quicker. Half the time, my lines get caught on the winder and I have to coax them out with two hands. That's one extra minute, and the assembly of a Rev is slower. A duallie takes 30-45 seconds out of the bag, a Rev takes 1-2 minutes. I should just keep it assembled in the back of my car... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfish Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Lol. I've never actually timed myself on assembly/disassembly, but Revs are much faster for me. I think this is one of those things that is highly flier dependent though. I know other people who think dualies are much faster to set up as well. However, I think one important variable is how much you break down the dualie. If you take it down all the way, there are a lot more steps to assemble/disassemble. If you leave the LE full length and don't take the lower spreaders out of the LE connectors, you've just saved yourself a lot (half?) of time. It sounds like your quad lines get caught on the winder but not your dual lines? Not sure why this is happening. Mine will snag while unwinding, but it just takes a second to unsnag and I'm on my way again. Hope JB helps you get it sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes, I keep the duallies almost fully assembled, just have to put in the upper spreader and the lower spreaders into the center T. I check the leading edge connectors on the lower spreaders, and attach the standoffs. No, the dual lines roll off the winder 100# snag free, one handed at a good walking pace. The quad lines roll out like that maybe 1/2 the time, but the other half, the pay-out has to be tended with two hands. I've tried the straight wind and figure 8, the results are about the same. Does anyone leave their Revs long (LE assembled) ? Take out the verticals & roll it up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ya. I'm about 3 minutes to set up a Rev, all in. We'll go over it when we hit your beach next week Rob, not a worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassiCut Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ya. I'm about 3 minutes to set up a Rev, all in. We'll go over it when we hit your beach next week Rob, not a worry. Any chance someone could have a video camera rolling during this process? I am a nay sayer and would like to see what I am doing wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Same technique as shown here, without all the pausing and talking... Biggest thing is eliminating "variables", not letting your lines or handles bounce around at any time during the process. Sorry Rob, for letting this thread get hijacked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassiCut Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Thanks John...... I think Rob doesn't mind the interruption. He has been very helpful to me elsewhere here and I appreciate what I am learning. I will watch it all again but the first 4 minutes gave me 4 good tips that I have been missing. Great help there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbailey49 Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Back to the original topic, Rob. I found the Zen extremely frustrating out of the bag. This was supposed to be the light wind Rev and be all kinds of awesome. I found that my B-Pro Standard with black race was more capable down to 2-3 mph than the Zen with the complete Zen frame. Even when it flew, the Zen flew like a temperamental truck. Slow and heavy and if you tried to force it, it just fell out of the sky. I got my first set of diamonds in my B-Pro and was about to put the Zen away forever, when I met Bazz at TI and he encouraged me to change out the frame in the Zen. I did, and it became a whole different kite. It is still slow, but it is a graceful slow now, rather than a stubborn slow. It is a different type of flying, but not frustrating anymore. Don't adapt your flying to a bad kite. Make the kite better. That's my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 As someone who learned on a Rev 1 , I can tell you for certain - it is a different kite!! All the snappy moves you can do with a 1.5 will just jerk the Zen right out of the sky! Smooth is the word, not fast and snappy! Many don't adapt, some do, it's all in what floats your boat! PS: if you've got flaws in your technique - the Zen will amplify them - fast!! It demands smooth and even!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Back to the original topic, Rob. I found the Zen extremely frustrating out of the bag. This was supposed to be the light wind Rev and be all kinds of awesome. I found that my B-Pro Standard with black race was more capable down to 2-3 mph than the Zen with the complete Zen frame. Even when it flew, the Zen flew like a temperamental truck. Slow and heavy and if you tried to force it, it just fell out of the sky. I got my first set of diamonds in my B-Pro and was about to put the Zen away forever, when I met Bazz at TI and he encouraged me to change out the frame in the Zen. I did, and it became a whole different kite. It is still slow, but it is a graceful slow now, rather than a stubborn slow. It is a different type of flying, but not frustrating anymore. Don't adapt your flying to a bad kite. Make the kite better. That's my opinion. Barton, I am convinced to try different sticks. It wouldn't hurt to have a few spares kicking around, anyway. I wouldn't say the kite flies bad, I just feel like I need more time on the lines to learn it's ways. At least I only pulled it out of the air once ! Same technique as shown here, without all the pausing and talking... Biggest thing is eliminating "variables", not letting your lines or handles bounce around at any time during the process. Sorry Rob, for letting this thread get hijacked. No hijack, this is where the conversation has led... People need to see this video, it saved me tons of time & frustration with my quad line sets. This isn't a huge issue to me overall, especially when I have a couple of hours to fly instead of a half-hour. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Just an update... I flew the Zen today for the third (real) time, in winds that were probably 1-5, variable, off shore kinda wind. There was plenty of wind to get the kite to fly, even enough to get it to hover a bit, and slide a bit (right side up, upside down). I flew on 80' lines this time, just to make the window a little bigger for the big kite. 80' lines, BTW, put me within 10' of the water, so that's about as long as I could go. Hmmm.... spongy... and what I would call 'oversteer' if I were flying on 2 lines. Kinda like driving a 30-40 year old American full sized sedan. Comfy, but don't try any fast moves ! I've only flown 1.5 Revs before the Zen, so it's one of those things to get used to & take in perspective. I chose the Zen over the 1.5 today because the Zen is mostly white & easy to see in the failing light. Glad I did, because it was fun, in a laid-back kinda way. Not too much work to keep it flying, and I just have to work on the proper touch. One thing... what's the deal with the Zen choosing to track on a line (locking in ?), and fight turning off of it ? A few times, it wanted to head right for the edge of the window & beyond unless I used a great deal of restraint on one of the brake lines... Making for an awkward turn to get back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Tends to do that in gusts I'll bet? Remember, the Zen has a pretty narrow wind range, that "locking in" happens more at the top end of it's range! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Here's a list of things to consider, all 4 combined together it makes an entirely new kite that just looks like your zen. #1. shorten/tighten up the brake leaders a bit more & go to longer handles (bigger steering wheel) #2. slap some sissy sticks on it #3. Change the frame, try the new Diamond tubes in the leading edge (wink, wink, consider the "travel frame" option too) #4. Try out the French bridle configuration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Rob: did you still have the Zen frame in it? That adds to that effect too! The spongier rods flex so fast into position, they do feel "locked". Try the stiffer hybrid LE or sticks on it or both and you'll see a big difference! PS: I weighed my hybrid frame and a Zen frame - the Zen frame was 12 gr HEAVIER! I am also trying sticks on mine to further stiffen things up! Makes the sail much more efficient and puts all the flex at the ends of the LE, not in the center! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 As I haven't had the Zen very long or flown it very much, it is still bone stock. I will be ordering up some new sticks for it the next time I make a supply order, but I figure I should get to know it a little until that time. I'm not as worried about adding weight to it as I initially was, but it is good to hear that the hybrid frame actually weighs less. That's almost reason enough to swap out the LE. Paul, I thought that I had a good amount of brake dialed in, but I will try a little more the next time out. I only have two sets of Rev handles, and they're both standard length. A bigger steering wheel makes sense, though. I've had a number of big cars, and they all had big steering wheels ! I'm not sure about spending the extra $$$ on diamond sticks, as someone at my level might not appreciate the difference. It's one of those things that I'm waiting to try them before committing to. Just like the magic sticks... Once I try them, I'll probably kick myself for not getting them sooner. Wayne, as far as 'locking in', I would say yes, the kite was powered up when it locked into that path. I'm sure the wind wasn't over 5mph, but it was certainly powered up. It's certainly different when the sail has wind in it, versus the loose & floppy feel that it has in very low wind. I see myself flying the Zen more, especially in the low light of Fall & Winter. It's a lot easier to see than my mostly black full sail 1.5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Keep it around long enough, it'll find a place in your bag!! On other's recommendations, I changed LEs ASAP! Gave some race ends to a friend and he says it's a whole different kite with the stiffer LE. Just really never liked the way too flexy stock rods. Make great verts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 So, more wind today, the off-shore was next to nothing at times, and maybe getting close to 10mph at others. The Zen was a lot of fun to fly when the wind came up. I followed Paul's suggestion of more brake, and that pretty much solved the tracking in a groove issue. I actually found the kite very responsive & precise when the winds were maybe 5-8 mph. And reasonably easy to keep flying when the winds fell to almost nothing. I think I found the Zen's niche ! All I know is that I walked away tonite with a big smile. Even with the springy Zen rods... with the stiffer sticks, I can only imagine ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I flew my new Zen this past Sunday. It came with black race rods, and I flew it in wind from 0-2mph, maybe 3, on 90# x 80ft lines using 13" handles. I was yankin' and spankin' like I do with 1.5s, and I believe that over-input is what makes it drop from the sky. I also was using maximum brake to keep the sail loaded, so much that an upright hover was impossible without constant whumping. It is slower to react and slower overall than a 1.5, but can still be spanked, albeit gently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andre Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 On the topic of ultra low wind flying, a little video of Heiko from Alphakites just enjoying the day with my Spectre XUL: And here we have Peter Maternus trying his hands on it to get to trick. Wind was pretty much, you need smoke to see were it came from, plus 40 degrees Celsius in te shade ... The Kite itself is called Spectre XUL, and has a wingspan of 98 inches with a weight of 2.8 ounces in the heavy standard version 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hey Andre, I have wanted to try that Spectre XUL for some time. The first video really shows off its grace in flight. Just like the ProDancer, it sure doesn't look like it is built to trick, and I know if anyone could get tricks out of a kite, it would be Peter. Someday I hope to scrape together enough kite $$$ to buy one from you, it certainly looks like the ultimate SUL. -Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andre Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hi Rob, You are right, tricks where of Zero concern to me when i designed the kite. I just wanted to go light because of the wind conditions we have a lot here and i'm to lazy to run all day over the field in minimal winds to fly If you ever manage the cash for it, i will be happy to build you one, as long as Avia makes the breeze 2 sticks Or Shyshark makes Zero Response golds again. I have no idea if it is the ultimate SUL, but most certainly it is the lightest one that is close under fullsize. Of course i had to try to top that and build a real fullsize kite that is even lighter, but that is so fragile its only useable indoors. but then at 1.67 ounces at 102 inches wingspan ... Sadly thanks to the custom made sticks, it is not only insanely light but also insanely expensive to make. Andre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynhi Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I love that kite! Nice flying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_(on-light)110px.png.f871ac6915a5dfb149c2fb26bbaf0493.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.