rfcaddell Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Morning Everyone I've been flying my B-Series Standard for a few weeks now. The winds here in the North East Puget Sound normally average around 2 - 8 mph, but the other afternoon the winds kicked up a bit above 10+ mph. I change out the frame from black race to 3 wrap that helped but the kite still had a hard pull with some strong buffering. Now I contemplating getting another Rev B-series that has some type of venting for a smoother flight. Looking at the specs on Revolution website the mid-vent is almost identical to the standard and the vented looks to give the most range of wind, but starts at 5 mph. I Know of someone who has a B-Series Vented will hopefully have a chance to fly it sometime soon. So here's my dilemma which kite to get now, being my wind is in the lower range get the mid-vent or vented. Will I see that much differences between the standard vs mid-vent and how does the vented fly on the lower end of the wind spectrum say around 6 or 7mph. My gut is telling me I will probably end up owning all three of them, but which one for now. Thanks Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Any vented is much smoother in gusty conditions, than a std sail. Personally, I throw out all the publicized wind ranges, to me it's all about what I feel. not what a book says.The full vent gives you max versatility, able to fly in much higher winds than a std or mid. It is my usual choice for most beginners, coupled with a std, gives you that wide range to fly in. As for a mid, it does have it's place! Think a brick wall - a row laid out end to end. Now start the next row - you overlap the joint. That's sort of the mid - it has a "sweet" spot at either extreme of the other 2 sails. Is it right for your conditions? Only you or any other experienced flier in the area will know for sure! As always - IMHO! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basicbill Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Morning Everyone The winds here in the North East Puget Sound normally average around 2 - 8 mph, but the other afternoon the winds kicked up a bit above 10+ mph. Thanks Ron Looks like mid-vent winds to me. Bill A happy standard, mid-vent and full-vent owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyzakite Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 as with Wayne I would also get the vented for wider wind coverage. However, as far as flying the vented in lower wind spectrum of 6 to 7mph, I would go back to the standard sail. In buying a vented or mid-vent consider the 2wrap and 4wrap frames, it will cover your frame spectrum. I stop flying at 17mph with gusts with the extra vent and 4wrap frame. Higher steady winds over 20mph is just uncomfortable for me. Remember, you can put the 3wrap and race frame leading edge in together to tame some of that 10+mph wind down while you're coming up with a second choice mid or vented kite. Your kite may feel like a lead sled with the 2 leading edges, but it works in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Most flyers get the vented as their second Rev, eventually filling spot three with the mid-vent. The standard and vented will cover the broadest range of wind, no contest. With experience you will find that you can fly the vented in wind down to 6 or 7mph-ish, and you will be amazed by how smoothly it fly even in "bumpy" wind in that 7-10 range. Of course you will be using your black race or 3-wrap frame in those conditions, black race at 6mph, 3-wrap at 8mph & up. You might also consider a New York Minute 2-vent, which falls between a mid-vent and vented on the other series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 75% Shook Mesh, flies in 6 (diamond frame) up to 30 mph (swap to green race or 4 wrap) it's in between a full vent and mid-vent in area of sail, but no excess weight of that screen material, super smooth flight dynamics & can be rigged as flailer's dream if that is your desire. A huge wind window to play within. YES, it's expensive, but you get two-fer-one in wind range and so silky in flight it's unfair to other kites. You also get to pick the pattern and colors, creating your own masterpiece. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDguy Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Ron, I am new to revs also, as you know, but I agree with the full vent. I have flown it in winds down to probably 6 - 8 mph with a 3 wrap frame. When you make it down here to Whidbey I will let you try mine if the winds are high enough. I think it feels different in lower winds and it definitely slows down compared to the standard rev in lower winds. Theron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Theron PM sent Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Flying my vented clone most of the time. 6 mph to 25 mph on the included 2-wraps. Haven't changed frame yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Okay guys it's all your fault (that's what I tell the wife) The winds have been blowing pretty high and choppy here lately, so I went ahead and ordered an B-series full vented kite in same color scheme as my standard. So with this being my second Rev kite does mean I'm committed to the Darkside? Ron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I embrace both my light and dark sides, no need to choose. Congrats on the STD/VTD combo, I think it's your best 2-kite bet for overall wind conditions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 And with a set of stacking lines.... Too soon to throw the "stacking hook"... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 And with a set of stacking lines.... Too soon to throw the "stacking hook"... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You'll never catch me stacking!! (I do it at night when no one is looking.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 So let's see if I have this right, I know it's a personal preference and everyone is different but I'm using this as a starting point. So on my VTD here's the wind conditions versus frame in the kite. I currently own a set of each black race, 3 wrap & 4 wrap frames. 6 - 8 mph black race frame 8 - 12 mph. 3 wrap frame 12 - up. 4 wrap frame Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 My vented stays with the T2 ak 2-wrap up to gusts of 25 mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I run black race in my full vent. Never swap. Recent flights include 18mph steady with gust to 25. If conditions hit lower extra vent territory. ..I may slip a 3 wrap in. Like you said...everyone is different and will have opposing opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Haven't needed my 4 wrap since I got an X/V - too stiff! 3 wraps work great! Don't be afraid of some flex in the LE, learn to control it! 6-8 mph, I'd still be using a std! Probably swap at 10 mph or so to the F/V up to ?? Might consider the 4 wrap at the higher ends of the winds. It is all about how it feels to you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 So let's see if I have this right, I know it's a personal preference and everyone is different but I'm using this as a starting point. So on my VTD here's the wind conditions versus frame in the kite. I currently own a set of each black race, 3 wrap & 4 wrap frames. 6 - 8 mph black race frame 8 - 12 mph. 3 wrap frame 12 - up. 4 wrap frame Ron Good approximation. This would be if you are keeping the standard sail, and changing frames as wind speed increases, or you can stay with the black race frame and switch sails from standard to mid-vent to full-vent to extra-vent. Or you can use two leading edges at once; they will both fit inside the pocket. Or you can hybridize, by using leading edge center section different than the outers and/or same/different as the uprights. Or you can mix and match all of the above. Then you have tapered tubes made by . . . . . . . . . . . the possibilities are only limited by your imagination and available funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Since I have yet to change frames from the included T2 (2-wrap equiv) that came with my clones, what are the major effect you will see from changing LE ? Or keep center LE and change sides only ? How about verticals ? I see some use tapered here. I have a full set of P90 and P400 to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 povlhp If you have stiffer frames, it should give you better high wind performance. Lighter should do the low winds. It still comes down to your own ideas of feel, there is no perfect one way to do this! You might hate my setup, but love Joe Q. Public's. I might dislike his and like Charley's! So there is no right or wrong, just what works for you!! Try the different rods in YOUR kite, experiment, maybe a combo will be a better fit for your style of flying!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 A simplistic explanation that may help with understanding some of the mystery of combination (hybrid) frames: You are flying an ultra-light kite with a P90 frame. The wind becomes stronger, and your leading edge is bending a lot, so you switch to a P100 frame, but now you can't load the sail as easily. Solution? Put the P100 center in the leading and P90 outer tips. This will stop the leading edge from bending as much, but still allow the bottoms of the uprights to move towards the middle, allowing you to load the sail easily and act as "shock absorbers" in gusty wind. Uprights can be either, P90 or P100, based on speed and quality of the wind. The best way to find out what effects different combinations will have on the kite's performance is to try them on a day when the wind remains relatively constant. As in any experiment, change only one variable at a time so you can be sure of what caused the change in behavior. And lastly, as Wayne mentioned, your style of flying will make one combo feel better than another, and this will probably change as you gain experience. Kite flying is not written in stone -- it evolves constantly, and the things you were able to do as a young man may become impractical or impossible as you age. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 And lastly, as Wayne mentioned, your style of flying will make one combo feel better than another, and this will probably change as you gain experience. Kite flying is not written in stone -- it evolves constantly, and the things you were able to do as a young man may become impractical or impossible as you age. Gospel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Was out in low wind yesterday. < 6 kts when strongest. And I could actually fly my full sail. I used the P90 frame (apart from center LE which stayed 2-wrap). I could see the extra flexibility and fly most of the time. Pumping it at times. At times the wind was so weak, that pulling a handle just made the kite want to go flat and float to the ground. Difficult to save even when moving backwards. But another interesting session. And I tried the lighter frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Was out in low wind yesterday. < 6 kts when strongest. And I could actually fly my full sail. I used the P90 frame (apart from center LE which stayed 2-wrap). I could see the extra flexibility and fly most of the time. Pumping it at times. At times the wind was so weak, that pulling a handle just made the kite want to go flat and float to the ground. Difficult to save even when moving backwards. But another interesting session. And I tried the lighter frame. In less than 6 kts, I would have used the P90 in the center as well. When the leading edge bends, the kite will move better. Sometimes the key to low wind flying is to keep the kite moving. If it won't hold a hover in any position, then you have to keep it moving, or switch to a much lighter weight kite. I like to fly my home-made ultralights sitting on the ground in 0 to 1/2mph wind when everything else is grounded. Of course, that requires 50# lines and a kite that weighs less than 135 grams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I noticed when putting in the leading edge rods today, the material that houses the rod was starting to fray a little on both ends. I took a lighter and melted the edge, that seamed to fix it. Is this normal and what do you guys do to prevent this. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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