Leader help

[jsc2501]

Hello all

 

Experienced sport kite flyer making the transition to the dark side. Got my first Rev in the mail today. 1.5 mid vent with lines and 13" handles. My issues is that the handles came with no leaders and as this is my first Rev i have nothing to compare them to. Can someone give me specks on leaders. What weight line? Length on top and bottom and how far should the outermost knot be on the top and bottom handles.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jeff

 

 

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[Brettgrant99]

Not sure why there are 5 posts on this, but every forum software is different.

I really wouldn't bother with leaders until you have some basics down.  Take a look at some of the pinned posts.

Check out this one

Much more important to make sure all four lines are the same length, and they will stretch if they are new.  CHECK THIS FIRST.

I bought a brand new HQ Mojo, and one line was 15 inches different than the others.

[riffclown]

8 minutes ago, Brettgrant99 said:

Not sure why there are 5 posts on this, but every forum software is different.

The duplicates have been removed.. It happens sometimes..

[makatakam]

39 minutes ago, Brettgrant99 said:

Not sure why there are 5 posts on this, but every forum software is different.

I really wouldn't bother with leaders until you have some basics down.  Take a look at some of the pinned posts.

Check out this one

Much more important to make sure all four lines are the same length, and they will stretch if they are new.  CHECK THIS FIRST.

I bought a brand new HQ Mojo, and one line was 15 inches different than the others.

Brett, I believe he's talking about leaders on the handles to attach the flying lines to.

I recommend to just buy a set of JB and TK's. They sell them on this forum. Check the main page. They are exactly what you need and made by someone who knows how to make them right.

Also check the pinned topic "Pigtails" in this section of the forum. Most people use the same type of line that the bridle is made of, doubled over. The actual length of the leaders can be whatever you decide, but make the top ones eight inches longer than the bottoms. You can adjust later by shortening, which is much simpler and faster than making short ones longer.

[Brettgrant99]

15 minutes ago, makatakam said:

Brett, I believe he's talking about leaders on the handles to attach the flying lines to.

I recommend to just buy a set of JB and TK's. They sell them on this forum. Check the main page. They are exactly what you need and made by someone who knows how to make them right.

Also check the pinned topic "Pigtails" in this section of the forum. Most people use the same type of line that the bridle is made of, doubled over. The actual length of the leaders can be whatever you decide, but make the top ones eight inches longer than the bottoms. You can adjust later by shortening, which is much simpler and faster than making short ones longer.

I was thinking that an experienced dual line flyer trying out quads would have much more trouble with the new hand motions than to worry about what is essentially fine tuning.  With a new kite, well I am assuming that it is new, flying with the factory setting should be fine to get the basics down.  I was just trying to say that he could start out without leaders, and then add them later.

[Paul LaMasters]

you could add brakes to your new car later on too, but I wouldn't recommend even a first drive without them.

Leaders aren't just about fine control, they are the reason that control exists at all!

The factory assumes you fly on the beach and want immediate gratification in real wind.

kite fliers & spectators assume quad-heads can fly in crap conditions, and with adjustments is is possible, dare I say,... even fun?

The top leaders are between two and four times the lengths of the bottom leader.  space knots close together so you can make little fine adjustments.

Hey you can move the seat and adjust the steering wheel in your car, right?  Well you can adjust the handles (thru leaders) so it's comfortable, just like your wheels.  where do you want to grip?,... are you a hand squeezer or a wrist flicker or a thumb pusher?  Each action affects the kite in the same manner (effects the bottom brake line to make something happen)

leaders are extremely important.

100# hi-test bridle line, doubled strand, larks-headed to each handle attachment point

[Tim P.]

Yep, you need the leaders. But just get the ones made here by TK and John. You won't get better and the price is right and the shipping is fast!

http://kitelife.com/forum/announcement/11-need-leaders-and-tuning-for-your-new-rev/

[makatakam]

4 hours ago, Brettgrant99 said:

I was thinking that an experienced dual line flyer trying out quads would have much more trouble with the new hand motions than to worry about what is essentially fine tuning.  With a new kite, well I am assuming that it is new, flying with the factory setting should be fine to get the basics down.  I was just trying to say that he could start out without leaders, and then add them later.

Brett, the handles came with zero, nada, no leaders. I think he should have some so there's something to attach the flying lines to, unless I totally misunderstood what he meant.

Hey, @jsc2501, post a photo of the handles so we can understand what you mean.

[jsc2501]

Malayalam, you are correct. There are no leaders on the handles.


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[makatakam]

11 minutes ago, jsc2501 said:

Malayalam, you are correct. There are no leaders on the handles.


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Go to page 1 of this topic listing. About 10 or so down the list you'll see one titled "Pigtails". Read that one and look at all the pictures of handles with leaders. Any of the "long" setups you see will be fine for you at this stage. Later you can fine tune them to your preference.

[SparkieRob]

Bottom of handles;
Really only need one knot about 13mm or 1/2 inch (depending if you are metric or fractional) out.

Top of handles;
Overall length approx 300mm/12 inches AFTER knots are tied. You could put 8 or so knots with 13mm space between them. With the "last knot" at the end of your leaders.

Material to use could be old bridle line or something similar non stretchy. Even Dacron from a single line kite line. About #90 is a good weight. Most importantly is to make Left and Right spot on even.


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[SHBKF]

Here's an image of the first set I ever modified.  I had previously tried to fly my kite one time at this point.

 I was unable to keep a Rev in the air for any length of time when I made these but I understood I was going to need to "tune my kite".  Had Know Eye Deer what that even meant.  I was still in the launch, spin crash cycle.  A few more sessions & I was starting to get it. But I still thought I needed the forward drive of the standard settings as I was flying the SLE leading edge tubes.  So I did not move out to the further knots for some time.  Knot spacing is 3/4" on these.  The lower leaders are standard stock items.  I still use this set up & have made more elaborate ones since.  SHBKF

[Brettgrant99]

19 hours ago, makatakam said:

Brett, the handles came with zero, nada, no leaders. I think he should have some so there's something to attach the flying lines to, unless I totally misunderstood what he meant.

Hey, @jsc2501, post a photo of the handles so we can understand what you mean.

Well, clearly I should stop making assumptions.  The last set of handles that I bought weren't just bent rods with handle foam and end caps.  Not sure that I would pay $57 for those shown on the website and they aren't even finished.  Of course if you are new, and don't have any handles, well, not much choice there.  They are even more challenging with no handles. 

[makatakam]

32 minutes ago, Brettgrant99 said:

They are even more challenging with no handles. 

7" handles, composed of thumbs and pinkies?  You had me thinking I made a wrong assumption. Confusion lies in the thoughts of the beholder, I guess. Mwahahahahaha!

I'm sorry. Which way is the bathroom? I gotta go. 

[SparkieRob]

I wont tie my own leaders anymore now they available in the Kitelife shop. Have 3 (or 4...) sets already.

One thing I do with the bottom leaders from KL though. I untie them all the way, cut them in half and just put one knot at the end of all 4 pieces. Then install them at all four connection points. The top leaders go onto the top set-knot and the bottom lines go on to the bottoms. I like just having the short leaders on the bottom. The short ones on top will "wear" instead of the leaders. YMMV.


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[makatakam]

9 hours ago, SparkieRob said:

I wont tie my own leaders anymore now they available in the Kitelife shop. Have 3 (or 4...) sets already.

One thing I do with the bottom leaders from KL though. I untie them all the way, cut them in half and just put one knot at the end of all 4 pieces. Then install them at all four connection points. The top leaders go onto the top set-knot and the bottom lines go on to the bottoms. I like just having the short leaders on the bottom. The short ones on top will "wear" instead of the leaders. YMMV.


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I do something very similar, but instead of cutting the bottoms, I make extensions from bridle line that are from four to eight inches long. Same idea as far as wear is concerned, but it makes the tops quite long overall, eleven to fourteen inches, which gives me leaders to grab instead of flying line to grab for "catch and throw". I don't like line cuts on my fingers because they get blood on the flying line and kite flying should not include pain.

When the extensions start wearing through (good winter project), new ones are fast and easy to make. Cut four equal length pieces of bridle line, tie a knot, install. Ten-minute operation.

[jsc2501]

Ordered a set from TK and John here on KiteLife. Arrived in the mail today. Excellent quality and incredibly fast shipping. Highly recommend. Thank you all for the great advice


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[makatakam]

3 hours ago, jsc2501 said:

Ordered a set from TK and John here on KiteLife. Arrived in the mail today. Excellent quality and incredibly fast shipping. Highly recommend. Thank you all for the great advice


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Start on the furthest knot out from the handles on top and bottom. Try to launch in upright position. If you can't launch, move the top lines one knot in toward the handles, try to launch. Repeat until you can launch easily. Every two or three outings, try moving one knot out. You won't like it at first, but within 20 minutes, you'll be comfy with it. 

[John Barresi]

21 minutes ago, makatakam said:

Start on the furthest knot out from the handles on top and bottom. Try to launch in upright position. If you can't launch, move the top lines one knot in toward the handles, try to launch. Repeat until you can launch easily. Every two or three outings, try moving one knot out. You won't like it at first, but within 20 minutes, you'll be comfy with it. 

This. 100%.

[Deke Haid]

Start on the furthest knot out from the handles on top and bottom. Try to launch in upright position. If you can't launch, move the top lines one knot in toward the handles, try to launch. Repeat until you can launch easily. Every two or three outings, try moving one knot out. You won't like it at first, but within 20 minutes, you'll be comfy with it. 

You told me exactly these words. And you were exactly right.

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[makatakam]

.......and the further you move out on the top knots, the easier it is to launch from the inverted "parked" position, to hold an inverted hover, and to fly backwards.

If you can't fly one knot in from the one that is impossible to do an upright launch from, then backwards and inverted flight will remain difficult forever.

[jsc2501]

Just to confirm, the lines should be attached to the knots furthest away from the handles on the bottom?


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[John Barresi]

By default, yes.

The smaller spaced knots on the bottom are used primarily for "half knot" adjustment (single small adjustment on throttle) or for quick equalization of line length.

[SparkieRob]

Just to confirm, the lines should be attached to the knots furthest away from the handles on the bottom?


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If you come in one knot towards your handles on the bottom, that is effectively extending your tops out.




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[makatakam]

Yes, and there are some other quads you may get the chance to fly or purchase, especially some home-made that can use the extra brake because of the bridle setup, or maybe you want to try flying any quad attached upside-down, or with the handles held upside-down. Imagination rocks.