Newbie Journey, Rev learning tips

[John Barresi]

On 7/7/2017 at 2:46 PM, Wayne Dowler said:

2 - Recycling your ground: A. - a trick - try marking where you start and where you want to stop. (My 2 stakes were handy for this!). Launch and fly til you run out of space (your rear mark). Take your kite up as high as you can, invert it, and riding the brakes as much as you can, start walking forward towards your start mark. With a bit of practice, you'll find the correct amount of braking and speed of walking, to regain most, if not all, your original space. May take you more than one go! But learning to "recycle" your ground will go a long way to helping you discover that control so sought after!

Aye, two references for gaining ground...

https://kitelife.com/kl-archive/tutorials/tutorials-dual-line/issue-39-milking-the-breeze/

http://kitelife.com/forum/files/file/633-rev-tutorial-light-wind-flying/

It's within reach!

[happysuperbutton]

Wow, gone for the weekend busy practicing on my Rev and didn't expect all this great advice and pointers already!

Thank you so much everyone that chimed in! (And reading my long ass post lol)

Friday and Sunday I was fortunate enough to have met and introduced myself to a couple veteran local Rev flyers. (dragonfish you'll know them, not sure if they wanna be named here, "S" and "F")

I got SOO much amazing advice from the two older ones, it was super cool of them. Friday I caught them a little bit before they were packing up at the end of their evening, but they unpacked and stayed with me for another two whole hours just to help me out. 

Again, my lines were f***d so badly no clue why, even "S" ended up spending half hour with me untangling it for me, "i haven't seen lines twist this badly in 4 years!"

He helped me out after winding up and unwinding lines, it worked out then. 

Sunday I caught them again they were about to leave in the parking lots already, but "S" was so nice to unpack everything and come fly with me for again another two hours!

Talk about amazing Rev community!

I learnt to vertical hover with him shadowing me, and control inverted flight, and spin over from parked to launch. Each of these took me nowhere more than 20mins to get the feel and results.

It was incredible.

He even helped me tune my brakes, one knot in to the handles which made my kite feel noticeably different and tighter, loved it.

Shout-out to "S" and "F"!!!!

Can't wait to fly more, gonna make more vids as I learn.

My lines are getting better unwinding, still ending up stumping the veterans how they wind up like they do but unwind so twisted, but not as badly as before. It's improving.

Post again soon! 😁

Fly with you again soon @dragonfish

[makatakam]

Glad you could get together with some experienced pilots. Makes a big difference, doesn't it? Life is so much easier when someone looks over your shoulder and says, "Try it like this", and you can actually see what they're talking about. You can read about it all day and still not get it, but once you see it happen life is good.

From this point on you will have many "ahaaa!" moments. Don't obsess. If you try too hard to duplicate what you did, it won't come. In time it will become second-nature -- don't force it. The harder you try, the harder it gets. Let it come naturally by itself. Remember, your foremost mission in kiteflying is to have fun.

[dragonfish]

@happysuperbutton, glad you met "S" and "F" and got some good advice from them. Yes, I know who you are referring to. "S" even mentioned to me that he met you. 

Unfortunately I won't be able to fly for the next week or two, so I probably won't see you in person until Berkeley Kite Festival or after. 

[Wayne Dowler]

Just asking - but - are you winding the lines with a simple over the top straight wind? And do you just hold the winder by the center hole and let it rock back and forth as you let out line? I was very apprehensive at first, so I did a 50' set in case I screwed up. That came out fine, so I tried 80', again fine and on to 120's, til now I can do/have done, it in the dark!! Again find that way that works for you and do it EVERY TIME! Establish it as habit!! 

[happysuperbutton]

@Wayne Dowler I'm doing JB's tutorial method, straight wind after the first half-8 wind.

I'm right handed, I hold the winder in my left firmly no rotation finger in the grip hole, then lead the lines onto the winder with my right hand.

Unwinding, those first few times posted above, I did JB's method of having my finger in the winder and walking the lines off the winder, letting the lines unwind itself, all the way to the kite. Along the way, many times the lines would unwind over one another and get caught up on the winder, a quick guide with my hand to unwind the couple of caught lines and then continue walking the lines off the winder.

Those were the times I had the holysh** twists stumping veterans.

Then I tried a variation of the method for unwinding.

Now, with the winder in my left hand and in the grip hole, i tug gently on the lines off the winder a few rounds each time with my free hand, then walk a bit, then tug more off the winder, then walk.

I've done it this way the last two times now I flew, and the twists were significantly less and faster to resolve.

So I'm gonna probably try it this way a few more times to see how it works out.

I think the best tip ive been practicing too is the one dragonfish mentioned, do not let the handles dangle at the end of winding the lines. Thats where they spin, and move into one another. And cause all the crap all the way down through the lines.

Thanks all for sharing all these great pointers!!

[makatakam]

Being consistent in the way you wind and unwind is everything. Keeping even tension, not so much that it makes the winder bend when you get to the end, but enough that when you reach the end there are no loose wraps on the winder, will eliminate one line from constantly snagging the end of the winder when you are "rocking" them off of it as you lay the lines out. Any loose loop on the winder effectively makes that section a bit longer and it stays behind as the others come off. Distributing the line on the winder so that it does not form as much of a bulge in the middle will help dramatically. When you watch others who have much experience wind up their lines it doesn't look like they are really paying attention to where they put each wind, but trust me, they are. I use a combination of straight wind and figure-eight, starting with the eight for about 1/4 of the length, straight for the next 1/4, eight for the third, and straight for the fourth 1/4. When I reach the end I wind down to the handles as JB does in the tutorial. The trick at the end to make the bottoms of the handles meet one end of the winder, if you are leaving your handles attached, is to take up whatever length necessary by unwinding some of the straight wraps and rewinding in a figure eight. The figure eight wind puts about 1/2-inch(?) more line on the winder per wind.  How many winds are necessary? It will vary, but eventually you'll be able to get it done in seconds without really thinking much about it.

[happysuperbutton]

Thanks makatakam for sharing that, valuable notes for newbie like me to keep in mind when out in the field.

I had the best time flying yesterday evening, flew for yet another hour, for a total of about 7-8 flight hours now with my first Rev!

It went so much better in yesterday's flight. I've found my own way around lines setup for the time being until I understand further how they work and behave in relation to the winder.

It took me less than 10minutes to get up in the air, after noting every single one of you guy's advise and suggestions here in the thread.

So thank you.

I'm gonna video what I do, maybe it will be useful for starters that don't yet know how to control the Rev fully.

I quickly came to notice the seasoned fliers that advised me with lines advised me the way they did because they were well, seasoned fliers. They already understand everything about the lines and flying the Rev with twisted lines. They are able to launch inches off the ground, inverted, slide, and spin the kite on command, or turn handles over and around all while keeping the kite upright, in order to untwist any lines. It's a tall order for even how "fundamental" it is.

A newbie like me, has zero confidence and no knowledge of how to handle the kite yet, let alone launch with lines crossed and twisted, and then unwinding by flying the kite or letting go of handles to untwist or cross over.

I was advised to immediately hook the lines onto the kite, don't bother straightening and untwisting the lines yet, as it can be done easier and faster once they are hooked in and tenses up with the kite and some twists might not even be any actual twists after all.

Following that resulted in my crazy twisted lines, so badly that the veterans were stumped too and struggled to help me untangle. Took me 30-45mins (with extra help untangling) before I was up in the air. Having the lines tied down to the kite and handles made any turns or cross over hard to manage.

So instead, now, i stake my handles, and unwind the lines, all the way down to the kite. But before I hook them to the kite, I spend the additional minute walking back to the stake, and then picking up the lines and separate them by pairs as I walk back again to the kite end. Since the lines are free at this one end, they unfurl on their own and untwist easily and rapidly.

the lines are in their individual pairs now, free of any tangles. Then I hook into the kite, parked inverted. Make my way back to the handles, pick them up the right way (crossed since parked inverted). And launch. Freedom. Less than 10mins down from 30-45.

Getting the hang of the Rev now, will post video soon

Update again soon thanks!!!!

[makatakam]

It will get easier. You'll have a lot of breakthroughs and "aha" moments by the time you have 40 hours of flying time, and will probably revise your setup and breakdown procedures between now and then. The advice you've read so far and that JB shows in the tutorials is by far the fastest and easiest way to accomplish both. Some folks prefer the method they have developed while learning for various reasons, others eventually migrate towards, if not all the way to, those shown in the videos. It's all good. What works for you is the method you will use. You may never need or even want to set up or break down in under 2 minutes, but if you do, there's the fast way versus all the other ways. As long as you're satisfied and having fun all else is irrelevant.

[Mike Klaiber]

Once you have the lines down you will start to throw the kite and have a whole new set of knot skills to develop. It's all baby steps then suddenly you look back and laugh at all that frustration. Mostly laughing at a newbie having them [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] reality is we all been there and struggled with that till someone said "hey, try this". Sounds like you are moving forward at a good pace with expected outcomes for the skills you possess. Enjoy

[John Barresi]

I'm headed to the Berkeley Kite Festival end of this month along with my teammate @windpoacher, hope to see many of you there!

[happysuperbutton]

Hi everyone!

I've been meaning to get my videos up, but darn how much I hate video editing. I've been recording my flights and take home around 20-45mins worth of footage every other day since I first got my rev a week ago.

Total flight time on it is now at around 13-15hours!!

It's been great. I have a ton to learn still even though I "can fly" the rev. No finesse or precision yet lol. Might be my RC background, but I loveee when the wind kicks in and this rev starts darting around, love the speeds it can get.

Always have questions and looking for pointers from you experienced fliers, biggest question now is what should I try first, seeing that I'm on a budget..I struggle to keep my midvent to stay up or hover in lighter winds.. (as expected) I usually have to wait for the gusts to come, could be the spot I'm flying sucks, but wind reported has been 11-14mph at the times I fly.

1 search for a std sail?

2 new lighter frame? But which?

3 seran wrap

4 lighter lines?

I got Barresi's leaders now, and watched almost all his vids here including light winds tips. Didn't work very well for me, no height gained in s turns, ended up doing figure 8s haha.

Thanks all, I'm determined to finish uploading my flight clips!

 

[makatakam]

It won't look pretty but you can cover the vents with 3M blue painters' tape in lighter winds. It can be removed easily and leaves no residue. The midvent, without any modification, will fly in 7mph wind and lower once you have enough experience to fully harness the wind's power. Lighter lines will help, but the expense isn't necessary. Covering the vents should suffice. Move the upper lines out a knot or two if you haven't already. It puts more wind pressure into the sail. Covering the vents allows you to fly in 4mph and even less once you have more time on the lines. A lighter, more flexible frame does help in lighter wind, but again, the expense at this stage is not necessary. What frame(s) do you have? Another thing you can do is to remove any excess weight from the kite. Once you have the sail bungees tightened properly, you can cut off the ends that stick out beyond the knots. You will never need to loosen them, so the excess can be trimmed off. Flame the ends after cutting to prevent fraying (the burning rubber smells really bad, so do it outside if you can). Anything you can think of to reduce weight will help in lighter wind. You can make or buy a Spectra bridle to replace the one you have -- again, not critical at this point. There are many modifications you can do, that when added together, can reduce the overall weight of the kite by as much as 3 ounces.

Try covering the vents and letting the top lines out a bit before anything else. These should make a dramatic difference.

[happysuperbutton]

Thanks for yet another helpful tip makatakam!

I tried messing with the knots, going farther out, but that made it take more effort to launch. Gonna test and make more notes on the differences next time I have to fly.

Taped/seran wrap on which side of the sail? I'd imagine the front side facing me so that it bulges and flexes the tape inward, or put both sides of the sail?

I'll try it, sounds like fun

[Wayne Dowler]

Moved knots out = more effort? Exactly!! The reward is in the added control you will gain while airborne! Had to add a step back into my launch sequence, but now gusts don't make my kite go crazy when they hit!

It is all a trade off on what results you get. Leader settings, sail choice, frame choice, etc. Change something to gain something, even if it's just the knowledge that something won't work! 

My own suggestion would be to look for a standard sail.

[makatakam]

Just the front will suffice with the tape. Using saran wrap will only save you about one gram of weight, but will take 10 times as long to accomplish. Just slap the tape on and fly. Remove the tape when you pack up the kite. One roll of 2" tape should last at least a couple of seasons and is cheap enough that you don't need to be frugal with it.

If you don't have to take a step backwards and pop the handles briskly toward your shoulders to launch, then your top lines are not out far enough, or the wind is really howling and you should be using a sail with more venting. You will get used to it within a few flying sessions. It does improve control very much.

[happysuperbutton]

Okay noted about knots being farther out. 

The spot I fly at is turbulent and grumpy, cause of the buildings on all sides of the park. Changes directions entirely within minutes, and also gusts up that the kite drags me along and then dies out for a few minutes that I can't even get it to launch and hover lol.

Will probably get some better flying conditions at the better kite lot on weekends.

Will start testing tuning then with the knots.

How about bottom leaders, typical to have knots all the way in to handles or far out?

JB mentions top leaders start far out and nlknot in step each time.

[John Barresi]

@happysuperbutton, again - I'll be at Berkeley...

Don't be shy if you're there, happy to share tips and a grin.  

[happysuperbutton]

@John Barresi had plans to join the bkf for a long time but doubt I would actually make it anymore seeing how we gotta be back for a concert that same afternoon. Still hopeful to squeeze in bkf though! What would be cooler than getting your autograph (and other vets) on my very first rev

[John Barresi]

Fingers crossed for ya, would be a pleasure.

[makatakam]

7 hours ago, happysuperbutton said:

JB mentions top leaders start far out and nlknot in step each time.

Bottoms furthest out for now. Later you will use them to adjust for unequal lines. Bringing the bottoms in is equal to letting the tops out by the same increment. If your top lines are already all the way out and you need more brake you can bring the bottoms in. I have two or three knots in my bottom leaders for these reasons, but the same effect can be had by using longer top leaders with knots further out. There is generally no need for knots close to the handles on top, unless you fly a variety of differently designed quads. I do, and therefore my leader setup varies slightly from the "norm". Search and read the handle and leader topics on this forum to see how others have set theirs up and you will have a good idea of the norm.

[dragonfish]

@happysuperbutton, you know BKF is both Sat and Sun right? Hope you can still make it.

Bumpy winds definitely make learning harder. Keep with it, you get it soon. At Shoreline if you're flying on the grass, the wind is much less closer to the ground. It picks up significantly about a third or half of the way up the wind window. The ground wind is a little better if you're further downwind in the dirt area (assuming typical wind direction). Good luck. 

 

(Edited typo, oops)

[makatakam]

Do whatever you must to make it to BKF. It is one of the top kite fests in the country. You will not regret being there. Lots of people wearing silly grins. If I was as close as you, nothing would keep me away.

[happysuperbutton]

Thanks guys for the support. 

Got to fly and hangout with S & F again over the weekend, flew his B-pro on 120lines, so smooth. Tempted now to get a set of 120s. Haha.

Planning to be at BKF for a little on Sunday, like after lunch, hopefully still able to meet you guys then!

Finally got my recording posted up from back on Day 4 of owning the rev, deng really nice to see how much you can learn in a matter of days.  

The rev is easy to pick up but really challenging to master. Which is awesome, makes easy for people to get into!

Have a lot recording to edit and upload, from Day 6 and 8, and then now Day 14... With all of you guys helping me and advising me and sharing your experiences, my setup time has gone from my earlier-posted 45mins down to less than 10mins as seen in that video, and today I now get up in the air in around 3-4mins.

Will try to catch up with uploading to show progress and how easy it is for anyone to learn and buy a rev!

[Edmond Dragut]

nice fly but from what i see on your video you do not use figure 8 winding,is not a mistake but you add more wraps to the winder. the lines seams to be Laser or Laser Pro. I do not like them especially because are SEAMS to be tangling at winding end unwinding by STICK to each other.Yes they stick and create the sensation of tangling. i will recommend you especially if you are tempted to buy a new set of lines for 120x100# SkyBond ,i am sure you will love them and your tangling problem will be solved  

on your handles are not JB leaders, from the angle of the kite at min 6,13 and line connection to handles at min 6,47 you have to many knots IN. try to the bottoms to go on the first knot and to the tops at the second. If the kite is not launching go to the top on the third knot. how other told you you will gain more control of the breaks after lunch.

keep it up !