Very Disappointing First Flight

[ChopperChuck]

Got to fly my Series-B for the first time yesterday and could not seem to keep it in the air. The winds were blowing around 12 Mph, I have 82 ft lines and no snag handles with TK's leaders.

 

Started with the lines all the way out on both the upper and lower leaders and could not launch the kite. Moved them one knot at a time on the upper leaders until I was 5 knots in. Finally was able to launch, but when the kite got up to a certain height the kite legs would twist and the kite would fall out of the sky.

 

Very frustrating. Looking for advice from some experienced pilots. Do I need to continue to move in on the leader? Longer flying lines to start? Something wrong with the setup of my kite that I need to check?

 

Have reviewed all of the videos and have not seen a REV with so little Drive. Even in lower winds.

 

 

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[Exult]

I also started out with QLKs rather recently. I never bothered with leaders. Initially I found it easier to fly (before finding out about LE flexing and sail loading) medium setting on the top lines (in the middle on the knot range - no leaders). The most frequent way to accidentally flap the vertical spars is IMO to pull too much on the brake lines (can flying close to the edge of the wind wind window trigger this as well?) - Small inputs and slowly especially when going backwards! Wait a while with the leaders until you learn basic QLK control and can keep it in the air for some minutes at least.

OK back to the drive issue. Try what happens when pulling both handles. The LE should now deform and the kite should speed up, stop pulling and the LE flexes back and more or less stops (if this doesn't happen change frame or kite with another degree of venting). Control the pitch angle of the kite during the forward drive so the the trailing edge doesn't flap. You will be rewarded with a low wooooshing sound when going forwards. Now you can start to add length to the top line by choosing a knot further out. To get the kite going forward, deform the LE by pulling the handles towards you. Pulling on all four lines will (hopefully) give you the nice wooshing sound. Pulling mostly on the top lines will give you the (ugly?) flapping trailing edge.

I'm currently at the last outmost knot of the handle without adding any leaders. This was what I believed until today's session. Then I found out that both rear bungee cords had been twisted catching roughly an equal amount of (rear) bridle. When undoing this I'm going to need leaders to achieve the same pitch (relative to the lines).

[Edmond Dragut]

that "kite legs twist" is over control  on the breaks that mins you are to many knots in on the top lines.i hope you mount the kite correctly and don't put the spars on front of the sail,that will make the kite to launch extremely hard

try to start at the third knot up and second on the bottom but before to of that check your lines length, even brand new lines some time are not equals. on winds more then 6 MPH the kite should self lunching  just taking some breaks out. 

 find a more experienced flyer to help you with first flights and setups till you will have enough experience by your self. that word "monkey see monkey do" work good on kiting on the beginning.

 

[makatakam]

The bowtie, when the bottom tips point in opposite directions, is caused by over-control. Smaller inputs will eliminate this tendency. You're trying to do what you've seen others do with a quad kite, and it's not going to happen the first few times you try if you have no one to assist you. Launch gently and go up, then give it a smidgen of brake and come straight down. If it starts turning in one direction, give the opposite side a bit of brake. Practice this until you can go up and come down under control. Try going up 3/4 of the way to the top and see if you can just hover and keep it balanced. Come in a couple knots until you develop a "feel" for keeping it balanced. Once you can do this it will be time to start practicing turns. The kite will turn to the side you apply brake to.

Learning on your own is harder, but not impossible. If you can fly with an experienced pilot, do it.

Don't let it get you frustrated. Remember that you're doing this to have fun. I guarantee that you will shortly be smiling from ear to ear.

[ChopperChuck]

Thanks for all of the advice. I was pulling exclusively on the top lines and looks like by the time the kite hit the top of the wind window was over controlling it. I will try adjusting the knots next time and trying to put pressure on the middle of the handles and not as much on the top as it maxes out the wind ,window. Small inputs. The spars are on the back of the kite and not the front.

 

The best news is that I had time to drive across town and visited a kite shop. Found out they fly every Wednesday so I am hoping to get some help there. Bit of a drive, but I think it will be well worth it.

 

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions. I'll keep after it.

 

 

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[Mike Klaiber]

Thanks for all of the advice. I was pulling exclusively on the top lines and looks like by the time the kite hit the top of the wind window was over controlling it. I will try adjusting the knots next time and trying to put pressure on the middle of the handles and not as much on the top as it maxes out the wind ,window. Small inputs. The spars are on the back of the kite and not the front.
 
The best news is that I had time to drive across town and visited a kite shop. Found out they fly every Wednesday so I am hoping to get some help there. Bit of a drive, but I think it will be well worth it.
 
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions. I'll keep after it.
 
 
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Believe me, the drive will be worth it on day one. The problems and easy fixes they can help with will have a smile on your face in no time. Second day and you will be looking to team fly. We all go through a few sessions until it clicks and having someone show you (especially tuning for conditions) is so much easier than a video, until you "get" it and then it's a plateau and learn game, for years - or at least it's been for me [emoji23] now I am happy to drive to fly with friends and better flyers than myself making me a better flyer every time I get with them!

[Paul LaMasters]

The quickest/easiest learn is someone more knowledgeable standing at your side.

you want to "FEEL" it for yourself (their equipment), then see how your stuff behaves in comparison.  They'll want to feel your kite's flight dynamics for themselves too and might even recommend changes.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen bridles not uniformly installed, or twists in the elastic/end-cap configurations during set-up.

Did you take the lines off of the kite and affix 'em all to a single stationary stake or fence post?  Did the handles fetch up tightly and match-up perfectly?  Doubtful!, another thing to be adjusted quite frequently, equalization.

Does the kite back-up,... another consideration, leaders and tuning (for comfort).  I hold my handles differently that you and our tuning preferences are biased to a feeling, personal to be sure.

Does it track laser-straight or is the leading edge more flexible and filled with power instead, do you have it framed for today's conditions/objectives?

Does the strength of the flying lines & length match you present location?

All this knowledge won't be absorbed immediately, some of it you don't even care it's that personal.  My advise to folks is "You'll hear five different opinions on what to do, keep the best, dump the rest"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChopperChuck]

Some real good points. I have not checked line length. Will have to do that this week. Picked up an E-Book on one of the kite sites called a Flying the REV, and how to do it. Been finding it very helpful. Has some good drawings on the connection points and bridle.

So many things to learn. Glad to find some of these resources to get me going.



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[makatakam]

16 hours ago, ChopperChuck said:

Bit of a drive, but I think it will be well worth it.

Truth.

[ChopperChuck]

Went over to the flying field last week and got someone to look over my kite and show me some of the basics. I am now able to keep the kite in the air and begin to make progress on the basics. Was well worth the trip. Hopefully the weather will cooperate this week and I can go back.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement.



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[John Barresi]

Overjoyed to hear this, sometimes a nudge here and there makes all the difference - congrats sir!

[makatakam]

You're on the way to bigger smiles. Yeehaw!!!! Let the journey begin.

[happysuperbutton]

3 hours ago, ChopperChuck said:

Went over to the flying field last week and got someone to look over my kite and show me some of the basics. I am now able to keep the kite in the air and begin to make progress on the basics. Was well worth the trip. Hopefully the weather will cooperate this week and I can go back.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement.



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Love reading your thread. Equally excited as everyone else above for you to have figured it out now.

Curious if you would mind sharing what you found out about by meeting up with other pilots... What was your "ah ha" moment and what did you fix, I think plenty of New comers down the road would find the tips golden just as you have experienced it too. 

Your thread also is another testament to how quickly (with some determination) and easy it is to pick up a Rev.

Fly more! 

[ChopperChuck]

When I got to the flying field I introduced myself to the group of flyers that were there and noticed that at least one of them was flying a Revolution. I told them that I was a newbie and asked them where I could setup.

After setting up my kite one of the flyers came over and made sure that I had everything setup correctly, and I let them take it for a test flight. When they landed they asked me to take off and land. I had about as much success as my first flights out. Kite went up, reached the top of the wind window and the bottom legs came out of it.

What my instructor told me was that I was putting to much pressure on the tops of the handles and to concentrate on keeping the pressure lower on the handles which would hold the bottom of the kite in and keep the wind in the sail. He had me launch and land the kite trying to feel the wind in the sail, and keep it there. I think this was my ah-ha moment for this session. When I learned how to feel the wind in the sail and keep it there.
Once I was able to accomplish this I could then direct what I wanted to do with that wind in the sail to control the kite and make it go where I wanted it to.

We then started on right and left turns, and from there went to flying to the right and left of the wind window. I even did a few right and left side hovers! When holding a hover you can explore sliding up and down as well as forward and backward flight.

Still need to work at holding my sticks lower while flying and using smaller inputs to begin maneuvers, but at least I am up and flying and getting a feel for the Revolution. I am sure that there will be more and more of those ah-ha moments in the coming weeks as I get more air time.

Plenty of big smiles here, with many more to come.





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[John Barresi]

All great feedback. 

PS: I've had many of my best AHA moments in the past 2-3 years, and I have 27 years flying both dual and quad... Never ends.

[happysuperbutton]

23 hours ago, ChopperChuck said:

When I got to the flying field I introduced myself to the group of flyers that were there and noticed that at least one of them was flying a Revolution. I told them that I was a newbie and asked them where I could setup.

After setting up my kite one of the flyers came over and made sure that I had everything setup correctly, and I let them take it for a test flight. When they landed they asked me to take off and land. I had about as much success as my first flights out. Kite went up, reached the top of the wind window and the bottom legs came out of it.

What my instructor told me was that I was putting to much pressure on the tops of the handles and to concentrate on keeping the pressure lower on the handles which would hold the bottom of the kite in and keep the wind in the sail. He had me launch and land the kite trying to feel the wind in the sail, and keep it there. I think this was my ah-ha moment for this session. When I learned how to feel the wind in the sail and keep it there.
Once I was able to accomplish this I could then direct what I wanted to do with that wind in the sail to control the kite and make it go where I wanted it to.

We then started on right and left turns, and from there went to flying to the right and left of the wind window. I even did a few right and left side hovers! When holding a hover you can explore sliding up and down as well as forward and backward flight.

Still need to work at holding my sticks lower while flying and using smaller inputs to begin maneuvers, but at least I am up and flying and getting a feel for the Revolution. I am sure that there will be more and more of those ah-ha moments in the coming weeks as I get more air time.

Plenty of big smiles here, with many more to come.





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Brilliant!!

I'm sure others as myself equally enjoyed reading your success bit, and yep that's the fun part of the Rev, learning something new with it, always such a rush when you finally 'get it's.. tons more moments like that for you to discover, I'm in the same boat, keep pushing! 

[happysuperbutton]

10 hours ago, John Barresi said:

All great feedback. 

PS: I've had many of my best AHA moments in the past 2-3 years, and I have 27 years flying both dual and quad... Never ends.

Still? I thought you've figured out the rev by this point down to a science hahaha, wonderful and even more motivating now.

[makatakam]

44 minutes ago, happysuperbutton said:

Still? I thought you've figured out the rev by this point down to a science hahaha, wonderful and even more motivating now.

There is no end to things that can be done. We just don't know about them yet. If you want to see some of what you don't yet know is possible, watch videos of the advanced European pilots doing their "thing". When you put JB and a couple of the advanced guys from across the pond on the same field, the things they end up doing just for grins will fill you with awe, and when they get serious new moves and tricks happen frequently. And then there's the things that take more than one kite to do, like threading. I'm eight years into flying quad and can't do half of the known "tricks". It's a life-long journey.

[ChopperChuck]

Can you post the links to those videos? Would be interested in seeing them.


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[makatakam]

21 hours ago, ChopperChuck said:

Can you post the links to those videos? Would be interested in seeing them.
 

Way too many to list. Just Google "Rev kite" and click on the videos tab. You'll find enough to keep yourself busy for days! 

[ACrop]

Way too many to list. Just Google "Rev kite" and click on the videos tab. You'll find enough to keep yourself busy for days! 

If you start watching on youtube I highly suggest making yourself a play list. You are going to want to go back and rewatch some of them as you progress and a playlist makes life easier.

Also, having a couple on there that are good for showing crowd pleasing stuff is good for when you tell someone that you fly kites for fun...you usually have a small window of time to show them why you are not crazy and quickly finding the right video for today's viewer can help make your case for sanity.

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[John Barresi]

On 9/5/2017 at 8:18 PM, happysuperbutton said:

Still? I thought you've figured out the rev by this point down to a science hahaha, wonderful and even more motivating now.

Yes, it's never ending, I'm happy to say. 

Particularly working with so many novice and intermediate fliers, I actually learn more explaining things in deeper and deeper ways, I'd rather borrow fresh eyes any day.

[ChopperChuck]

If you start watching on youtube I highly suggest making yourself a play list. You are going to want to go back and rewatch some of them as you progress and a playlist makes life easier.

 

 

Great idea! Found myself in the very situation the other day when I was trying to explain what a Revolution was, and what it could do. Could not find a good video to explain it in the short period of time I had.

 

 

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[mrfaosfx]

It really does help to have an experienced flier beside you! It can be very overwhelming at first. The learning curve for quad flying is initially very very steep, there is a lot of trial and error but with help from someone you can get through it much faster. The first time I grabbed the controls of a revolution kite, I could not control the thing, it would go up, start spinning and crash down. I ended up tangling the lines very very bad.

My 2nd instructor was Jynx, she showed me how to attach the lines and launch the kite and keep it in the air. Thanks to her, I had a bit of control of the kite and I could fly left and right but not very good, it was very fun. What followed after that was lots of crashes, broken spars.

My third instructor I would say was Jay and Kelly .. Jay taught me the importance of the trim on the top and bottom lines, to also fly the kite with purpose instead of crazy and to make small adjustments and slower smoother flight. I also learned the catch and throw from him as well, a fancy trick. He also taught me how to better turn the kite.

The rest I have learned on my own by watching. 

You will initially be intimidated when you see the precise control other fliers have, trust me, you will get at their level at some point. Today thanks to all the help I've head, I can call myself an experience flier. I have absolute control of my kite and flying is so much more fun and rewarding.