Indoor Dual Line Tutorials

[John Barresi]

To support the launch of the Kaiju this month a guy at Kite Forge (I) got together with a guy at KiteLife (me) and “JB” (myself) to punch out a first release of nine new basic indoor dual line tutorials, we all had a blast getting these ready for new indoor folks to find their legs quickly!

http://kiteforge.com/help-tutorials/

Big thanks to Scott Weider for his help with filming under a time crunch right before he left for an event in Kuwait... Look for much more from our family in the future.

[Breezin]

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil . Very cool. Keep them coming.

[John Barresi]

FYI, we will be adding 1280 (desktop/iPad) and 640 (smart phone) files of the tutorials to the KiteLife Subscriber download section as well, for folks who want to have hard copies.

[Breezin]

I had assumed all batons were  at the wingtips. Neat. I finally know what Dort Capicitors are LOL.

[j-steph]

thanks for the dual line indoor videos John. during my fly time today i was trying to figure out  some of the things you covered in the videos. great timing to be able to learn some of the details you showed. tomorrow is going to be a lot easier

[John Barresi]

In all fairness, I’m not sure if batten is still the technical term for the thin spar position on the Kaiju but I’ve always know any spar running through the body of the sail as battens. I’m happy to have my terminology corrected though.

Dort!

Looking forward to hearing how the tutorials work out for everyone, plus and minus, I think the main thing is that it’s talked about in universal forms, then everyone can see and adapt / adopt things to taste.


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[Paul LaMasters]

Wren and rarer pro-wren (from Jeff Howard-?), that's the first time I saw batons in the sail like John's applied.  They keep things nice & tight w/o a lot of excess weight.  Good job sir!

[Breezin]

At kbp the Wren plan is in French and sounds like baton to me. Old Kite Shoppe ad shows a Jeff Howard Wren. Nice looking kite. Both the plan and the ad show a different angle with a bend at the top. From looking at different kites in this style  Kaiju is a bargain.

[SHBKF]

Watching all the videos has really been enlightening.  I now understand how to improve my up & overs with landings or turns instead of lucking into a turn or just plain crashing.   I can see why I have made errors in flying 360's.  I will improve my hand & arm positions, walk backward with intent, learn to precisely feel the sweet spot of sail pressure & maybe land enough to keep from getting silly dizzy.  The throw launches will add immensely to my enjoyment as they look so trick.  The lessons on the fade launch will be very helpful to do the same more consistently when flying outdoors.  I will also learn to rotate the kite better in no wind conditions which will translate well into improving my outdoor flying.  I have already been to the rodeo with the Zero G & the Wala.  Look forward to introducing it to my two line repertoire.  No indoor venue available out here in the sticks but have plenty dead calm conditions to look forward to enjoying.  Thanks for the KiteLife you share, SHBKF 

[Wayne Dowler]

1 hour ago, Breezin said:

At kbp the Wren plan is in French and sounds like baton to me. Old Kite Shoppe ad shows a Jeff Howard Wren. Nice looking kite. Both the plan and the ad show a different angle with a bend at the top. From looking at different kites in this style  Kaiju is a bargain.

Spelled batten and originated in the sailing world. Wren's battens are anchored at the spine using fittings, causing the bend. JB's are going into pockets sewn in the nose, therefore little to no bend.  Several gliders use them, most notable the Chiroptera from Will Sturdy.

[John Barresi]

Loving the feedback. ❤️

Regarding the battens, the Kaiju is also the first kite I’ve seen where they are actually woven through the sail, generally they run through sleeves sewn into the sail (which I don’t care for visually).

[Breezin]

No sleeves less weight for the batons err dang it battens.Would the Wrens bend be to widen the pocket in a filled sale because it's heavier?

[John Barresi]

Not sure I understand the question?

Wren, for those reading...

[Breezin]

Not sure I do either .I think I'm asking if the billow on the Wren would be shallower and wider . Because of placement on  Kaiju  looks like the air  flows from LE and spine towards the battens and fills the sail on either side more deeply and evenly. Tension  looks pretty constant across the whole sail. The Wren looks more relaxed from spine to batten then from batten to LE. Would the weight of the Wrens batten design create the need for more surface area to billow.  Hence the curve in the batten.There is a very high chance that I have just confused myself again.. My thought is coming from the Pro Dancer where it seems the filling of the sail is mostly from the stand off in. From stand off to batten more tension at  the corners  for control.The huge surface area that billows between the stand off and spine makes it harder to dump the wind and trick but gives amazing lift. In 0 to maybe 3 I can tilt the kite to one side. Rock it back and forth  I can dump the wind out of the lower side and get it to go on it's back or belly easier.Being able to watch that billowing effect on such a large slow kite has made me fly better on the other kites. It's also making me think I need a crash course in aerodynamics. 

[John Barresi]

I think some of the perspective shifts because the Wren is a taller kite by proportion (longer spine).

[Wayne Dowler]

Sorry - I  thought the Wren's battens ended at the spine, not top spreader. That said, the Wren's design leaves the top 30% of the sail uncontrolled or tight. That means that top part of the sail can load, unload, and not always as you desire. JB's design gives a full tightening from nose to TE. The sail can never lose any shape the way the battens run. 

[Breezin]

There you go Wayne . What I think I'm seeing is for a more even, controlled loading and dumping of the sail. Not so much a weight issue.

[Wayne Dowler]

That lightweight a batten, weight is negligible. The Wren's design I'm guessing, leads to it being a bit more "floaty", while JB's is a mix of floaty but track able. And still maneuverable enough to trick.

[John Barresi]

Great observation Wayne, spot on.

Wren is “lighter”, but Kaiju is more well-rounded imho.

[Breezin]

I thought the Kaiju would be lighter.John I remember reading a post on ULs  where the weight was being a deciding factor as what to choose. Your advice was I believe understanding the sails shape  and square inches of material were equally important if not more so. Once again I tried to understand  designs from a weight perspective instead of the intent of the sail. Learning this stuff at times is like sucking a thick milkshake thru a straw.  Ya gotta let it melt a bit and a spoon kinda defeats the purpose.

[John Barresi]

In all fairness, I don’t know what a Wren weighs or how the two sails compare in square inches, the quotation of “lighter” was an unclear reference to the way it flies, Wren feels lighter on the lines, but is also flimsier (flex) and less tricky than the Kaiju.


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[John Barresi]

Okay, just looked up the wingspan, both kites come in at 60” even, so with the Wren being taller it’s pretty safe to say it has more sail area... Still hunting a weight to compare against the Kaiju’s three ounces.


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[Wayne Dowler]

14 hours ago, Breezin said:

I thought the Kaiju would be lighter.John I remember reading a post on ULs  where the weight was being a deciding factor as what to choose. Your advice was I believe understanding the sails shape  and square inches of material were equally important if not more so. Once again I tried to understand  designs from a weight perspective instead of the intent of the sail. 

There's the "mistake" right there. Once again I see people hung up on numbers over feel. What is the Kaiju's purpose? Indoor and urban, not at 50'. Indoor length is 10' or shorter. It's meant to be a balance of float with tracking, but still maintain trick ability. I'd bet the PD would outperform the Kaiju at usual outdoor lengths of line! And it might be darn close in weight too!

I'll give you a good example of what I mean: The Zen. Weighs a ton, but is for light winds. The sail loading overcomes the weight. I even added weight, using magic sticks and making my own wear strips! Saved a bit by using a hybrid frame, it weighed less than the stock. But adding the sticks and wear strips made it a wash in weight. Now there's a kite that likes 50'!!

Remember its purpose grasshopper!!

[SparkieRob]

I'll stick my hand up and say I have to crunch the numbers. I don't get any opportunities to try before I buy. I rely heavily on manufacturers data as well as pilot reviews.

Sent from a Galaxy 8 Far Far Down Under.

[khsidekick]

First day trying indoor duel line flying was a blast. Watched the tutorial videos several times and picked up a lot of techniques that made flying indoors easier. Learned several launch [emoji573] procedures that were fun to work on. I saw a huge amount of improvement in myself and my son Jack, although he spent most of his time on the indoor rev. With JB’s tutorials anyone can with a little practice fly the Kaiju. For the price I don’t think you can beat it for indoor flying.


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