How much longer to replace this bridle?

[frob]

I've had lots of wind, which means time for repairs.

The bridle in this picture is about 2.5 years old. It has cut or frayed through most of the bridle in the center leading edge and both wingtips. The lower attachments are only slightly frayed.

Any guesses at how much longer it could hold out? 

I'm not sure if this much wear is normal, or comes from my irregular hill-country turbulence, the lack of a soft sandy beach to land on, or my flying style, or something else. Is there something I can do to help extend the life?

[JWharton]

Some of my gear looks like that, just make sure you got spares with you that bridles on the edge.

[oapbillf]

Change it now before your day is ruined !

[frob]

I already put in a purchase for a new one. (Thanks JB or TK, or whoever ties them.)

Now that the bridle has changed changed from heavy fraying to only having the inner core, it's time to carry one in my bag.  Mostly I'm wondering how to make them last a little longer. I've only logged 71 hours on that sail plus or minus rounding my flight time in my notes, so I'm not sure how I was particularly hard on it. 

 

 

 

[Exult]

2 hours ago, frob said:

Is there something I can do to help extend the life?

I don't like this nock design. Both with DLKs and QLKs I like much ground contact. With these nocks I feel limited. The bridle line is so close to the edge and is too exposed IMO. So after wearing the outer layer of the bridle out (something I saw after dragging the wing tip along the grass a couple of times) I attempted to put some heat shrink tubing around it to make a light weight sacrificial layer. The heat shrink tubing did its shrinking, while the spectra/dyneema core melted - Not good. Then I replaced this part of the bridle with some other bridle line (that happened to be  so stiff it could be held horizontally). A sheet bend was used for the splice and this knot has lasted for more than half a year now. The core consisted of black fibres that couldn't be melted - only burn. Now I could add the heat shrink tubing. Today however (on my second QLK street session ever), I instead used the more common method to cover the LE nocks with vinyl end caps to protect the nocks from wear because the asphalt is so abrasive.

 

[frob]

That is an interesting idea.  I thought about adding a fresh layer of 100# sleeve over the top, but getting in through would be difficult and trying to cut and tie it off cleanly would likely cause more damage than it prevents.

I don't think I'd use heat shrink material (you pointed out the dangers there), but maybe finding a way to slip something similar over it. My first thought since I'm around network cable so often is some of the wrap off of that. It is somewhat thicker around, but sturdy enough to make it last a while longer.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[makatakam]

8 hours ago, frob said:

I already put in a purchase for a new one. (Thanks JB or TK, or whoever ties them.)

Now that the bridle has changed changed from heavy fraying to only having the inner core, it's time to carry one in my bag.  Mostly I'm wondering how to make them last a little longer. I've only logged 71 hours on that sail plus or minus rounding my flight time in my notes, so I'm not sure how I was particularly hard on it. 

 

 

 

Ground contact, especially on the beach is what kills them. If you fly with that one before your replacement comes in and it snaps, just drop the handles, literally. If the kite begins to spiral very fast you will break a frame member and possibly puncture the sail. You can buy bridle line and tie your own in the future. They are quite easy to tie, don't have to be dead on, just symmetrical side to side (mirror image). Should be able to knock one out in less than an hour without using a jig. With a jig -- you would have to make your own -- 10 to 15 minutes once you've done a couple or three.

[frob]

24 minutes ago, makatakam said:

Ground contact, especially on the beach is what kills them.

Got it. No more ground flying for me, only air flying.  ;-)

While I understand having sand, gravel, asphalt, or even grass rubbing through the center attachment, I'm more confused about the wingtips. While I've done plenty of wingtip landings I doubt it was enough to cut through them that much. I'm inland and in 2.5 years I've only logged six beach days with that kite, cleaning out the sand immediately on returning home, so I don't think the brief exposure to sand could have done that much to them.  

Either way, I've learned I need to add some extra protection to my remaining bridles, and to the new one ordered through the site yesterday.

[Edmond Dragut]

you catch something in the grass, a piece of glass or wood. for sure you rub something hard to have the sleeve damaged but not the strands 

[Paul LaMasters]

buy a plastic dip (vinyl) liked used on electrical tools, from your favorite home improvement outlet & paint that stuff on the bottom flying lines attachment point of the bridle, (all the way on that leg to the end-cap),.... as Bazzer does with the Phoenix, stiffer & protected

lightly sand the parameter/interior edge of the end-caps so they don't prematurely cut thru the bridle loops

I've tried little belt loops placed between the end-caps and the actual bridle, so the addition wears-out instead of the bridle's loops.

[makatakam]

I just thought of something. We could use sacrificial lengths of bridle line that would add an inch or two attached to the caps. Replace when worn with new ones. I wonder if it would make much difference when the bridle is an inch or two further from the sail. Replace just the one(s) that have worn should be really quick, even on the field. Just carry a half-dozen pre-tied loops in the accessory compartment. Knot of the loop goes at the cap, while the bridle is attached square knot style.

[Exult]

I find that the sheet bends are of a bit more permanent nature in general. Perhaps bridle line is such a good (stiff?) knot materiel so that square knots are ever lasting as well? There should be some kind of reference of where to position the (whatever) knot, like two dots of permanent markers - one on the bridle and one on the nock side. Both dots could be inside the knot that joins them e.g. Furthermore, IMO, the cap/nock should be of such a design that the bridle lines are not exposed to abrasion anywhere close to the outer end of the nock (no, I have not implemented such a nock myself).

[JWharton]

I was going through loads of bridles, since I've had these rubber caps on my end caps my bridle issues seem to of disappeared.

Look up Wattys indoor rev modification.

[Edmond Dragut]

if that sand protection save the bridle means you drag then on the ground and is not a good idea.

somebody told me some time ago "fly low,  up everybody is good" but dragging the caps or leading edge on grass end especially on concrete is to much. is like destruction derby for me  

because is the center you may use a pigtail and cut the original damaged bridle.make sure is close in dimensions with what you cut. 

 

[Paul LaMasters]

when using the attachment piece (loops ~ 1-¹/₂" of 100# high test bridle line, knotted) in-between the bridle and the end-cap, I turn the loop so the knot is against the cap, rather than using it as a "pig-tail" point to larks head the bridle's loop against.

I wrap electrical tape over the cap too, freezing the location and covering that knot so it doesn't make a tangle point.

Now the loop can wear out, instead of a $40 bridle

Yes, that sacrificial loop allows a little bit of play (say it "slop" in the bridle), but the french style i prefer it is so arc-welded in place (as opposed to merely holding the kite) that it doesn't make a profound difference in flight dynamics.  As an example: The center attachment point moves about an half an inch in either direction now, instead of being absolutely rigid.

[makatakam]

Sacrificial bridle loop pictorial.

    Create a 2 to 2.5" loop using single overhand knot. Trim and flame end.

    Put bridle leg loop, the one at the end of the bridle, through endcap. 

    Attach sacrificial loop to bridle loop. (square knot )

    Tighten and pull square knot through endcap.

    Loop sacrificial around endcap as you would normally the bridle loop.

    Tuck that ugly knot into the hole if you don't like the way it looks.

It's gonna be a little tight in there, but that's ok because it will reduce movement and, therefore, wear. I have not done this on any of my kites, but going by Paul's description, this should work fine. I wouldn't bother extending the center frame loop. Just replace that shorty as necessary. This will put your bridle about 1-1/2" further out from the sail. If you don't like the feel or performance you can tie a knot(s) in the bridle loop to shorten it to the original lengths, or just shorten the bottom ones to improve axels. You knew about shortening the bottom of the bridle to make axels easier, didn't you?

P.S. -- You guys owe me 9" of bridle line that I wasted on this picture shoot and a million dollars for the pics 'cause they're priceless, or 6000 words because that's what six pictures are worth. 

[khsidekick]

I need to try this out, 2 of my revs are pretty close to needing the bridles changed because of wear in this exact spot. Next time I change one I’ll use pieces of the old one to make some of these pieces.


Sent from my IPhone

[makatakam]

58 minutes ago, khsidekick said:

I need to try this out, 2 of my revs are pretty close to needing the bridles changed because of wear in this exact spot. Next time I change one I’ll use pieces of the old one to make some of these pieces.


Sent from my IPhone

Yup, and save all the bridle you don't use for other kites and future replacements. Just remember that you're moving the bridle further away from the kite. You may have to adjust if you don't like the way it feels. A bridle that is further out makes the kite feel spongier.

[frob]

Thanks all. 

I've made equal-sized small sacrificial loops out of the old bridle for the caps. I'm not sure about the central attachment point on the leading edge. since the center has a loop that ties to another loop tied to the LE, does that loop need a sacrificial loop added? Or should I just let the little central 2" loop that came with the new bridle remain without an additional sacrificial loop, since that can be easily replaced later?

That central loop was the most worn, which makes since as that's the central contact point for being on the ground. And because that extra loop is tied directly on the leading edge instead of an end cap, I assume I could replace that loop easily when it wears out (unlike the worn wingtips, which could not be salvaged). That loop wearing thin doesn't require a full bridle replacement, so I'm not sure if it could benefit from the extra piece. Would the extra length (or lack thereof) cause any issues?

[makatakam]

24 minutes ago, frob said:

Thanks all. 

I've made equal-sized small sacrificial loops out of the old bridle for the caps. I'm not sure about the central attachment point on the leading edge. since the center has a loop that ties to another loop tied to the LE, does that loop need a sacrificial loop added? Or should I just let the little central 2" loop that came with the new bridle remain without an additional sacrificial loop, since that can be easily replaced later?

That central loop was the most worn, which makes since as that's the central contact point for being on the ground. And because that extra loop is tied directly on the leading edge instead of an end cap, I assume I could replace that loop easily when it wears out (unlike the worn wingtips, which could not be salvaged). That loop wearing thin doesn't require a full bridle replacement, so I'm not sure if it could benefit from the extra piece. Would the extra length (or lack thereof) cause any issues?

That 2" loop that came with the new bridle replaces the one connected to the leading edge.

I would just replace the worn piece with the new one, no sacrificial in that location. Just keep it simple. If you make that center loop longer it will make the kite lose a bit of stability. Depending on your flying style and what you want the kite to do, you may or may not like it. One way to find out is to try it. You can also try shortening it. Both will have noticeable effects on performance. Give it a shot. You can always make the way it was without much effort. Some of my home-made kites have bridles that are adjustable at every point where it attaches to the frame. Each has a length of line attached to the caps and the center point, that has about 10 knots in it like the adjustment knots on your handles, about 3/8" apart and the loops of the bridle  larkshead to these. Voila, totally adjustable bridle. Great for tuning in bridle length for kites you build that are a different aspect ratio than the common Rev. Really dial in on what the wind is doing. Extremely helpful on my home-made extreme ultralight to help match the frame flex to the wind speed. The knots limit the flex in 2-mph wind (strong for this kite) and allow more flex in 1/4-mph wind.

[Wayne Dowler]

On my street rig I did something similar to sacrificial loops, but slightly different.

When my  bridle wore out at an end cap, I trimmed the old bridle down to the knot for the loop. Tested it to be sure it would hold under load. Then made loops  long enough to replace the originals and larksheaded them on using the knot still on the bridle. Seemed that all the wear was occurring at the loops, why replace a whole bridle? Cheap but effective fix. 

[makatakam]

4 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

On my street rig I did something similar to sacrificial loops, but slightly different.

When my  bridle wore out at an end cap, I trimmed the old bridle down to the knot for the loop. Tested it to be sure it would hold under load. Then made loops  long enough to replace the originals and larksheaded them on using the knot still on the bridle. Seemed that all the wear was occurring at the loops, why replace a whole bridle? Cheap but effective fix. 

Great idea, Wayne. Simple and effective. And you only have to do the ends that are worn.

[Edmond Dragut]

i named that pigtail. may be loop, may be extension. how long is easy to do and cheaper the name is not important