midibot

Supplemental: The idea of a stiffer lower spreader is a good one and I can think of a bunch of kites where this has been done, but many of them have something like .2100 or .2300 or 6mm pultruded frames, with say a skyshark 5PT or Dynamic 15/18 tapered in the lower spreaders for added stiffness/strength. Quite a difference in rods. For instance, the Prism Hypnotist, SkyDog Sweet Emotion, Flying Wings Insync, etc use this approach. Don’t know if the difference would be as dramatic in 5PT upgraded to nitros for lower spreaders on a specific kite. Quite possibly. Be interested in reading your experience if you proceed in any case. .

Of the kites I have with nitros, they are generally considered an upgrade if they didn’t originally come with them. Presumably for stiffness, although there may also be a strength factor. (BMK Mongoose, Enigma, Widow). Have not done a side by side comparison though. Nitros do require a larger diameter ferrule, which may complicate things slightly at the centre T fitting if swapping out from other skysharks, but no biggie. Consider a note or phone call to the man, Jon Trennepohl at Skyburner to get the best advice I can think of on the planet for such matters. (They, of course, make them along with others you might be comparing them to.) Certainly cheaper to make the change incrementally and see how you like the effect with just the LSs first. That'd be my thought. .

Nice flyin' and presentation. Looks like you own the beach! Empty! .

I am a little late to this but thought of this thread while I was out today. Quite some time ago I started playing with just skimming (more like sliding) the kite along the top of the grass from a rest, as far as I could one way, then reversed to the other. All the while still on the ground, inverted. The movements I noted are mostly small pulls, a la dual line method. But after a bit could lift the tip of the kite with tiny wrist movements and that helped smooth it all out and release the kite if it got stuck in a tuft of grass. Fairly windy today around here, but even so found walking backwards slightly helped a bit at times. May only work on grass, or at least that's all I've tried it on. Forgiving and not too abrasive 😉 I do this from time to time on my quad sessions. Looks impressive if I do say so. After some reps, move it up a bit, maybe dragging the rearmost end on each pass. (later: over water!). But the move may be a useful practice step. Trying to picture this reference to 180 degrees but may be missing something. Do you mean 360 degrees? 180 would put it leading edge up to my way of thinking. (If it matters). My side slides in general need work but I am just as good in either direction. The practice is much of the fun 😉 .

Love the name. I am way too active on my feet to make that work but maybe I will try it some day. (The movement is a good part of the fun for me. Plus I gotta get in my 10,000 steps/day my doc says, so...) 😉

Nice kite, I do like the one I have. Very well made as usual by Level One of Germany. Mine flies steady and solid, yet relatively nimble and light on the lines. Nice axels, too, I was reminded the other day. (Sometimes I surprise myself. 😉) .

The Emmakites wind ranges seem reasonable as far as they go, and in accordance with my general experience with Windrider IIs (the lower wind comment may be a suggestion that one may have to take a step back while launching at the bottom end). I have the Std, Vented, X Vented and XX Vented. Give your Vented a go and see how you like it before leaping, perhaps. I like mine but find I prefer a good 15kph (10mph) to fly it comfortably, and it is good to ~25kph (16 mph though will handle to 20+). My XX is good (for me) from 20mph on up. Have flown it comfortably up to 35mph-ish but that may be pushing it for regular full time flying (for me anyways). Capable of lower; more work and switching of knots. After that I might start to wish I had one of those flying frame things like a Xanadu or something. In respect of the cloth used: to date, the PC20 versions are holding up okay -- no rips or tears or holes developing yet on the most used. Wrinkles and fold marks are appearing but are not visible at over 8 feet or so. The PC31 versions are slightly softer cloth, less krinkly but more $$. Value for money wise, the PC20 is great so far. Your experience with your new Vented may be your guide, if you have the patience. All that said, I am not hard on my kites generally speaking. These are my experiences. So ymmv as always. PS: so far, no middle of the night incidents to report. Thankfully. 😉

Unless the more recent ones have changed, the EXP rods are 'three wrap'. And the vertical rods *can* be used in the leading edge of the EXP. (If there is a spring it will of course have to be removed.). Also, you can mix and match with certain of the other 1.5 type Revolution kites, in my experience. BTW, there's some interesting history on Rev rods by John Mitchell here (see also his other stuff): http://johnnmitchell.com/IntSportKites/rev_history/rods.html Once you start swapping brands, I have not tried it -- but if the ferrules in the leading edge accept the 'foreign' rod I see no reason why not, assuming the rod length is similar. Have no experience with the 3Winds myself but if the leading edge length is the same and the fittings work (fit) then yes, you might be able to use the EXP LE in the UL to give you a higher wind option. Try measuring and report back! I have 2, 3 and 4 wrap rods I mix and match on my Revs according to whim and wind conditions, and plan to do so on my Freileins in due course. Of course you could also make up your own frames or partial frames with some Skyshark P-series or whatnot. I have played around with P90s and P200s this way in some rev style kites. Do a search on here for that perhaps if that is of interest. .

Just pulled out my old Benson Outer Space, framed in pultruded, and the lower spreaders are both unmarked but do have a kind of a shiny appearance unlike other pultruded. I expect they are probably the originals, likely Structil as stated above. I know both have identical black hollow-looking inserts at one end, for reinforcing at the centre T. Pretty sure some of my old school British kites used Exel at one time or another. Would have to check my old Std Stranger etc. According to the site jaydub refers to Exel was used in the Psycho, admittedly with a bit smaller span. (I have even used Avia .2300 in a pinch with some success, although it is a smidge smaller in diameter than the 6mm.) Kites and Fun things does carry some Exel pultruded sticks btw so maybe matching up your LSs may be a quick (non-reframe) way to go depending on which one you busted. Looks like they list a .2300 'strong' and a 'pro' under the Exel category. https://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Excel-Pultruded-Carbon-Tubes__EXCELTUBES.aspx Nice kite btw. I know you are not giving up on it yet. 😉 .

Welcome to the forum, UK Kiter! Looks like you were responding to an older post and thread. Some 15+ years old in fact. 😉 The Addiction referred to in that series of posts has since been superceded by the Pro Addiction I believe. At any rate, if you have any more Qs this is a pretty good forum for that and someone will pipe in with some guidance. Try again! Perfect winds. .

pm sent on EOL!

Thank you for this! It provided incentive for me to give it a try. The long arm movements, together with slack line management proved to be the key and my success rate improved with repetition, as one might expect. It gave me a chance to try it with my shorter 33 foot lines, which I suspect may be of some assistance for early attempts. As a side note, I am also drawing attention to the spelling of the word “axle“ in order that anyone doing a search on this site might also be drawn to the alternate spelling, axel. I understand that this latter name is based on the figure skating move similarly named involving a jump and completing a type of spin around the axis. As I understand it, it was named after Axel Paulson, the Norwegian figure skater who invented, or made popular, the move in the late 1800s. I am Canadian, so I know about this stuff 🙂 Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_jump .

I have not even seen (much less flown) a Diamond Kites Veyron, but it came along during my hiatus -- so had to look it up. Good looking review on kiteclique if you haven't already seen it. Sharing it for the possible benefit of others, too: https://v2.2.kiteclique.com/diamond-kites-veyron-review-by-grischa/ Very interesting and capable kite from the video linked therein. .

Have a Trick and Track but by the colour scheme may be a different version. Has a large presence in the sky, and is very precise. I would go so far as to say more of a precision kite with trick capability than flat out trick kite. Nice solid steady flier that cuts sharp corners but is not afraid to pop an axel. Not really intended for rollup type moves, however. Like mine. .

May have been a blip. I see it there now, under the Badass drop-down: https://www.levelonekites.com/2line/badass/#cc-m-product-12563275587

This is a terrific chart. It helped me visualise how to 'mix and match' spars as I had read previously in this forum, for tuning for performance and winds and personal taste. (Such as using a stiffer centre section on the leading edge.) The graphics were good for understanding what comes with each level of venting in the III lineup as well. As mentioned elsewhere I got some T0s to play with the lower end of my UL version and will try it with a T1 centre section (and possibly others) in addition to a straight T0 throughout. This will help me assess how much of a difference the 'bend' makes in the LE in a given wind and thus help me establish druthers. All in good fun 😉 .

I own a number of the Windrider II models, and one III model, and perhaps can share a little bit on them to assist. [edit: I was writing this when some of the above posts were made and before I saw them] The Windrider II comes in four variants that I am aware of: standard (std), vented (vtd), extra vented (x vtd), and extra extra vented (xx vtd). The venting on the the vtd model is approximately 25% of the sail area, and, as you would expect, the percentage goes up with extra venting. Unlike the Revolution style of almost vertical panels of venting, the Freilein line has the vents in a different pattern as may be seen in the images on the Emma Kites website. I got my kites from Emma Kites when it was still associated with AliExpress, however, I gather that Emma is no longer selling through that ebay-like venue, but, rather directly. When I bought my first kite there I had no experience with AliExpress, but they have an elaborate system of funds being held in escrow which appealed to me at the time as an additional level of comfort that the transaction will be completed properly. My transactions with Emma Kites have been entirely satisfactory although shipping does take quite a period of time in transit, probably not helped by these Covid times. I am in Canada, for what that is worth, and Emma is in China. Another point to consider is whether to go with the PC20 cloth or PC31 cloth. I had the choice of either cloth in any of the II models and went with a mix in different kites. The former is supposedly lighter, although it does not seem to make a hugely material difference in overall weight (I have not checked this point). The PC31 is more like what we know as icarex (and may even be that, although they don’t say). As such it is less crinkly than PC20 in sound, and is perhaps less likely to hold creases. The price difference between the two sails was approximately US$40, but the kites are otherwise identical in terms of construction and materials used including fittings, bungees, spars, etc. The spars used are called Crystal, and they are graduated in weight and strength, with the heaviest, being the T3 spar, being found in the highly vented kites. T2s are used in the standard version. I also got the UL (not SUL) version of the next generation of Windrider (Windrider III). It sports an even lighter spar, the T1 as stated in the my review of that kite. The III versions also have different graphics, and some other changes as detailed in the aforesaid review. Mine is in PC31. This kite I actually got from a different vendor, also based in China, but on ebay. I have a number of both Revolution and Freilein kites, quad and dual, and I would say that the construction quality of the Freileins that I have is probably a step above that of my Revolutions in terms of uniformity and detail. In terms of durability, I have had most of these kites for over a year and they have been flown fairly extensively, up to about 10 hours each, and, so far, the durability has been excellent. I have neither busted a spar, had a stitch come undone, nor had any bits fall off! I hope that this helps.

Done, and continuing. From high winds of the previous prize, to this more towards the other extreme. Nice contrast. Seems a good addition to any kite bag "...to be flown in light wind, light urban or indoor conditions," per the description on the Kiteforge page. Beaut. Now, who's the dude in the first pic in this post -- Dodd Gross's twin brother? 😉

Awesome flying. I spent some time watching your hands. May learn something. The whole experience was fun. Too short 😉 The winds looked howling. What did they range for you during that, if I may? Shorter lines? Cheers .

Neat. I have had a number of occasions where a specialised part might be useful and particularly makes sense for custom applications where there is no alternative or you want to just do it for the fun of it. One thought I have is durability of the end product. Perhaps too early to say, but that would be a factor in viability. Know nothing about the process, but can you tweak the materials or raw materials to adapt for flexibility or stiffness or brittleness as needed? In addition to the weight factor you mention. To say nothing of colour. At any rate, good work! .

I did not even know that there was an SUL version of the Badass until I saw your post, which prompted looking further. I am quite pleased with my UL version, which I got from the North American distributor. I did not see the SUL yet on their site last I looked a while ago. I do see it on the German site for Level One. I am a big fan of larger SUL kites in general as they allow majestic, typically slow flight that allow you to see the moves unfolding before your very eyes (I am fond of saying). And it allows flight *at all* at the lower end of the wind range on *those kinds of days*. It is also a welcome break from quick-flicking, don’t-blink flying. Much like I expect the Reloaded you already have. I know the standard version of your Reloaded is quite manoeuvrable from what I’ve seen and read (and I have lusted after that, too!). Assume the UL is as well. But the Reloaded is of more of a medium span at approx 77 inches. The Badass series at about 92” is considerably larger, which lends itself to slower performance in the lighter winds and compared to a medium sized kite . Perhaps you’ve already seen it, but there is a neat video of someone flying the SUL version of the Badass -- and it even gets him a 360°/720°, without too much running! The link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYsk6ivxUxg&t=14s And, lest I mislead someone into thinking it can’t be flicked, there’s this (note the ‘smoke’ being emitted by the nearby factory is going pretty much straight up!) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0ZwYUWCac

Good looking kites. Particularly interested in your assessment of the SUL once you get a chance to fly it more in lower winds. It looks a step up from a straight indoor kite, which means possibly more structurally stable I would think -- but how low can you go and still have fun? Without working TOO much! .

I had heard of weights in revs, but good to see updated specific reference here as I have neither tried nor even seen them before. (I expect a search might turn up more info.) Another thing I have just learned here now: 2PT for verticals! On the outdoor kites? Does not the end of a 2PT, particularly the skinny end, just swim loosely in the connectors? I can see maybe going to a 2P as they cost a little less but have less of a fit issue, and are just marginally heavier. Judging from my experience with 2PTs in dual line kites, they are strong for their weight but comparatively fragile (and expensive to replace). Which leads me to my next question: has anyone ever broken a vertical? Any kind of vertical? Other than just stepping on it? Be interested in thoughts on that. With apologies to OP for the diversion… .

Belated congrats! Be interested in what winds you like it in (in due course). .

Very cool kite! Unique! The pilot makes flying it look easy, too. Relatively. (Not to detract from the skill, however.) A lot of parts, some of which are moving. The setup and tuning may require patience. But the results are a hoot. Thanks for posting. .