What line length to get for UL and SUL flying?

[riffclown]

5 hours ago, cjay said:

Ok I see. Tension from the larks head goes on the knot instead of the end of the loop. Interesting.

But it is still looks fully sleeved, not just bare line.

Figure of 8 knots are good, I used them in rock climbing all of the time.

Thanks for the pics.

This was done with bridle line just to show the knots. It would be done normally with bare line.

[cjay]

Ok, but it sounds like Paul was talking about the knots being tied on a single strand of kite line. so the line wouldn't be looped back on itself creating a pigtail on the end of the line.

So it sounds like his kite line terminates with 3 figure of 8 knots in a single unsleeved line.

In that case, I don't see the point of having 3 knots at the end of the line if they aren't to hold the line looped back onto itself. Especially if a person was concerned about snagging. Seems like just one knot at the very end would make more sense.

Wouldn't a standard sleeved and looped termination with one knot would be less prone to snagging then 3 knots spread out down the line? Hard for me to imagine how a sleeved loop termination would snag any more on the lines than the knots on the bridle would.

 

[riffclown]

for that, I'll have to defer to Paul.. What I shared is what I was understanding and remembering..

[cjay]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 3:17 AM, Paul LaMasters said:

no sleeving, extended length attachment loops with stopper knots built it.

 

15 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

the pull or stopper knot shown in the picture was placed onto the existing loop rather than being built INTO the loop before forming,.... insert that thing on the single strand!

 

[makatakam]

Hi, cjay. Knots tied in very slick lines have a tendency to slip, and when you tie a loop the knot holding the loop will slip, especially if it is a single overhand knot. That's why figure-eight knots are use to tie loops. Even these will slip some with time and pressure, and that's why multiple knots are used. A knot into the single line strand tied before the loop is formed and tied will slip as well,  but it can't untie/slip off the end of the loop because it is trapped on the line and can travel no further than the tip of the loop. You can increase its size by tying a surgeon's loop or figure-eight but it becomes more difficult to center it in the loop. Even if it's a bit off-center it will eventually slide into position at the tip of the loop as it is used. Unsleeved line will cut into the bridle so some folks will use sacrificial extensions that can be replaced as they wear.

And you thought kites weren't rocket science, didn't you? 😁

[cjay]

Ok I see, thanks.

[makatakam]

21 hours ago, Cot51stState said:

As a bonus, I find a figure eight knot is easier for me to place where I want it than a figure eight loop. 

You can coax a figure-eight knot into position with a paper clip bent into a long narrow u-shape by poking each point through one of the openings in the "eight" while the knot is still loose and literally sliding it to wherever you want it. Try it. It's kind of freaky, the way it moves.

[Paul LaMasters]

figure of eight knot and a set of forceps..... the knot is too be placed at a very specific point,( it will not slide only tighten, which is four thicknesses in the middle of the knot), How can it slide around if it tightens on both directions towards the center of itself?

I should shoot some video, but the knot looks like an "8" only laying on it's side (before it is tightened), ONE half of that eight has to be pushed OVER the top of the entire assembly of string and all of the ensuing slack must be PULLED OUT in the opposite direction.  Holding the strands in place with the forceps allows you to BUTT AGAINST it's edge, as you snug all of the line out thru the other half of the "8" firmly placing it exactly as desired.

Practice before you get to the good stuff!

The knot doesn't cut your bridle unless you are sawing back and forth aggressively during installation or removal.

The loop on the flying line is affixed to the bridle and it stops when pulled up tight against the stopper knot.

[Mike Eibey]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:26 PM, riffclown said:

Well I fly quads on lengths like 240' when I get the chance and those aren't common. I also have 150's along with the more common lengths. As for making my own, it's a personal preference. 

240'! Wow that would be pretty cool to watch! Not sure id ever seen such long lines! 😃

Whenever I'm flying my SUL I usually use 50' 50#. I have a set of 40' 30# line but its a little harder to see the line and get it to drop quickly when doing slack line movements.

Other that that 90# line by whatever length you want is a good cover 95% line. Atleast up around the Tacoma area.

[riffclown]

Different fliers but the very same set of lines..

 

[Mike Eibey]

Thats really cool. That wind window is monstrous! 

Does the kite feel mushy that far out there?

[riffclown]

There is a bit of a delay between input and reaction but like so many other things in our sport, you get the feel for it fairly quickly.  Many people think it goes slower but in reality, it's only a marginal decrease in speed due to line drag.  It's just the longer lines and distance to the kite makes it seem so.  As you can see on the side slide, it reacted to inputs pretty well.

@John Barresi was able to axels.. For me, Flying a quad on 240's is quite relaxing. Not a stop and pop reaction but you literally can sit back and fly under good conditions.. And the cool part is, the lines are long enough that even people who know kites, will look around and try to figure out who's flying it??

[Mike Eibey]

That's really cool. I may have to try making a long set like that for the rev or maybe one dual line set. 

Most of my time is on short lines being the small park I fly at but those would be alot of fun out at Long Beach! Thanks for that idea.

[John Barresi]

Takes forever to cross the wind window. 😂 

[DonFibonacci]

13 hours ago, John Barresi said:

Takes forever to cross the wind window. 😂 

Sold!  Ordering line now.

I love the fact that the window is 64 times larger than with 30` lines 🤔

[riffclown]

57 minutes ago, DonFibonacci said:

Sold!  Ordering line now.

I love the fact that the window is 64 times larger than with 30` lines 🤔

One point, Would recommend flying with a single twist on each side. otherwise wind resistance give you a ton of brake drag.  A 1000ft spool of LPG or Skybond gives you a nice quad set of 250-ish. Will be a feat to get equalized the first time or two. It is both relaxing and addicting to fly on the long lines.

[riffclown]

I'm flying the Red White and Blue kite on the right. The other two kites are on 120's at the bottom of the dune. For relative distance the camera was right beside me. The shadows on the sand also reflect the relative flying plane for the three.

[edgerat]

14 hours ago, John Barresi said:

Takes forever to cross the wind window. 😂 

not the slowest kite I have seen recently... 

[DonFibonacci]

23 minutes ago, riffclown said:

Would recommend flying with a single twist on each side. otherwise wind resistance give you a ton of brake drag

You mean a half-twist of each handle?

[riffclown]

6 minutes ago, DonFibonacci said:

You mean a half-twist of each handle?

Flip each handle once so the flying line supports the brake line about halfway out. Or just fly with one twist for the whole lineset. The intent is to let the flying lines support the weight and drag of the brake lines which generally are not as tight.  Otherwise the wind can catch a brake line and apply inputs which you did not provide.

[DonFibonacci]

46 minutes ago, riffclown said:

Flip each handle

Oops, that's what I meant, not a "half-twist".  Flying with upside-down handles is probably not a great idea at any length! 

[SparkieRob]

SUL I'm using #50 x 100 feet.
UL #90 X 100 feet. These are for my Sevens. I need to get a #150 or #250 set for my Vented. I've kind of adopted 100 feet as the standard length for them. Like 120 is for quads.

But. That's if I'm working on figures or tricking. If I'm just flying for expression then #90 x 50 feet. Or 30 feet if I don't have much room.

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