tuning Pigtails (tuning your quad with knotted leaders)

[Wayne Dowler]

Hovers in all orientations. Be able to hold any position without the dreaded "surge" You're looking for a balance of having forward (on command) and backwards (again on command), to attain as close to a "neutral" as possible. Then you have control over how the sail reacts, not at the mercy of the winds.

[vin]

Thank You Wayne. Will try it out and see how it goes. Thanks again for the time n effort to explain. Hopefully the winds n weather forecast turns out good over the next week. 

 

[Wayne Dowler]

No problem. Report back on how it goes and if you need any other advice, just ask.

One other piece of good info - If the kite is going to crash - LET IT! Step forward, take all the power out and just let it go down. Better to have to set it up again, than find broken parts. Pulling just drives it in harder.  Learn to "Give to the Kite"! Your wallet will thank you!

[vin]

Sure Wayne. Been there and learnt the hard way when I started off. I just give it when it wants to go dwn and unload the sail when it does. Thanks again Wayne. Will report back and let u know how it goes. Cheers Wayne. 

[makatakam]

Hi, Vin, and welcome to the forum. I don't remember if I said hi to you yet, so if I didn't before, I did now. 

Once every two or three times you fly, see if you can go one more knot further out on the top lines and still be "happy". You will find that over time you will be moving them further and further out to adjust for wind conditions. Watch the "launch" tutorial, and the rest of the beginner batch. It will make learning easier to cope with if you're doing it on your own. You will have one or two frustrating times when you are learning. Chalk them up to experience and get on with flying. We've all been there and survived the (minor) trauma.

Have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe.

[vin]

Hi makatakam. Sry for the late reply. Thank you for the wishes. 

[vin]

I did try tuning the leaders today. Bottom lines not touched and all the way out on the first knot. And launching till I found my happy knot on the top lines. (About 4-5 knots in from outside). Winds were about 6-8mph. I tried hovering in all directions and doing maneuvers till I was comfortable and was not bias ok either forward or reverse drive and trying to keep it really neutral. Now, what if after I find this happy knot, I feel like I still don't hv e ought brakes and would like more brakes? If I move my top line out to make it is slightly to brake heavy and feel like it's hard to hover and the rev just keeps dropping out of e skies when I try to perform like eight point clockwork and etc. Any ideas on how to get slightly more brakes without compromising my forward drive too much? 

Sorry if I'm not making any sense guys. 

[frob]

1 hour ago, vin said:

I feel like I still don't hv e ought brakes and would like more brakes? If I move my top line out to make it is slightly to brake heavy and feel like it's hard to hover and the rev just keeps dropping out of e skies when I try to perform like eight point clockwork and etc. Any ideas on how to get slightly more brakes without compromising my forward drive too much? 

"Brakes" are the difference between the top and bottom lines, which adjusts the kite's pitch. 

The greatest difference you can get is the length of your handles, that's the difference between all the way forward and all the way back.  That distance is limited by handle length. If you need more drive than you can get from pulling parallel to the lines, get longer handles to allow a bigger difference in pitch. 

The Rev typically ships with 13-inch handles, but many stores also sell 15-inch.  Common sizes run from 11" to 17".  

[makatakam]

On 4/27/2018 at 6:31 AM, vin said:

Thank You Wayne. 

May I know Other than launching after finding the happy knot, what other maneuvers should I try to see if I am on the right track to ensure I'm not to bias in forward or reverse drive? 

That is something that will change every time you fly. It will change because you will get better at controlling the kite. It will change because of changes in the wind. Each time you fly, after an hour or so, try letting the top lines out one more knot. Eventually you will be able to fly many knots further out than when you started. This will happen in time (experience) without much effort on your part. Just check every two or three times out that your lines are of equal length and adjust when necessary. The only thing to try is not becoming "handed". This means being able to, for instance, turn to the left but not the right. That would make all your turns "left-handed". This is an extreme example that is unlikely, but some of the more complicated moves like flying backwards can be more difficult in one direction than the other, so practice each new move to the left, right, up, down, all four directions on the diagonal and every angle in between, and at every speed from very slowly to very fast.

If you do this, then the problem becomes a moot point -- it solves itself. You will know when it happens. It will "click".

Just remember WHY you fly. Have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe.

[John Barresi]

Remember also, there's "happy" (safe feeling) and "HAPPY" (good feeling)...

When using the "start long and shorten to taste" method, remember that a well tuned quad doesn't simply "lift off" the ground with ease - it should take a little "kick" in the lines to get it moving, and once moving, the power will increase exponentially (while in forward motion).

When you stop the kite, it will get "soft" (stall), then take a little kick to get moving again.

You can find some references or examples of this in the following videos...

http://kitelife.com/forum/files/file/702-rev-tutorial-sail-loading/

Remember, the Hadzicki wing is flexible, it's drive and performance change as we add or reduce pressure, coupled with the subtle angle of attack (top knot tuning or in-flight hand position).

Might also be stimulating to you to search references to "Whump" throughout this forum, directly relevant.

[John Barresi]

Good tuning will cause a launch to feel slightly "difficult", until you get a good sense of how it functions, then the rewards are clear.

Another tell, if your kite's trailing edge is regularly making noise (more than a full toned hum), you probably need more brake (longer top knot), this relates to "over sheeting" as described by sailors (sailboat).

[makatakam]

On 4/30/2018 at 5:24 AM, vin said:

I did try tuning the leaders today. Bottom lines not touched and all the way out on the first knot. And launching till I found my happy knot on the top lines. (About 4-5 knots in from outside). Winds were about 6-8mph. I tried hovering in all directions and doing maneuvers till I was comfortable and was not bias ok either forward or reverse drive and trying to keep it really neutral. Now, what if after I find this happy knot, I feel like I still don't hv e ought brakes and would like more brakes? If I move my top line out to make it is slightly to brake heavy and feel like it's hard to hover and the rev just keeps dropping out of e skies when I try to perform like eight point clockwork and etc. Any ideas on how to get slightly more brakes without compromising my forward drive too much? 

Sorry if I'm not making any sense guys. 

You get more brakes by moving the top lines further out from the handles. Period. You won't like it. Not at first. Put another 50 hours of experience under your belt and you will like it just a bit more. After 200 to 500 hours you will like it very much and with all that experience you will have the lines on the proper knots for the conditions and what you want to do before your first launch. Until then, just keep flying -- You will have "aha" moments along the way, when things just "click" and suddenly you have it and understand why.

You will not be flying like JB does in the videos any time soon, unless you put 8-10 hours in on the lines, 6-7 days per week. The most we amateurs can hope for is . . . . . . . but if you put in the time, who knows?

[John Barresi]

Most new pilots can’t even launch my kite without added instruction, lots of brake.

[John Barresi]

Most new pilots can’t even launch my kite without added instruction, lots of brake.

[vin]

Oh wow. Thanks for the tips and advices frob, makatakam and JB. I think I should have gotten it 95% tuned out and probably need some getting used to now. Will try a knot further out when the winds get up and let u guys know how it went. Definetly never going to be able to fly like JB, haha. Thanks again guys. 

[John Barresi]

Nothing unique about me - combo of time (27 years), knowledge and passion - the sky is as deep as you imagine it to be, rock it.

[makatakam]

The more brake you have in your tuning the easier it is to fly in reverse and to hold an inverted hover, so the sooner you get used to lots of brake, the sooner you can master those two moves. Those two moves in addition to controlled slides and spins/rotations are the basis of EVERYTHING ELSE you can do with a quad-line kite. Other than that they're not very important.

[John Barresi]

In addition to brake helping invert...

Hands above the elbow promotes forward flight, hands below the elbow promotes brake (about 7” between the two positions).

Also, fingers slightly higher on the handle promotes forward flight, fingers slightly lower on the handle promotes brake (just 1/4” to 1/2” higher or lower makes a big difference).

[vin]

Thx guys for the tips. I have the best teachers. For real. 

Firstly, winds are shitty at this point in Singapore. Weather Apps are not very accurate. But I did try to fly today and was scrutinizing everything to do with my flying style and I stumbled across while looking at my lines. While my handles are straight(hover position on handle) , my top lines are taut while brake lines are slack. Won't this cause my brakes to be less reactive? (I find my turns very slow. Prior to changing leaders, my turns were very reactive with the slightest move of my brake lines) Won't making my brake lines taut more or less equivalent to my top have equal reaction to forward and reverse bias? So, moving my handles in forward drives makes the Reflex XX move forward and also making reverse flight reaction quicker. 

 

*sry if my questions are nonsensical. 

[Edmond Dragut]

if you do not use JB leaders or something like them your break will be slack because of normal position of hands and handles. longer leaders on top lines correct this. if you do not want to order new once you may build your ones. top around 9-10 inches with 6-7 knots at 1/2 inches distance ,bottom 4-5 inches long with 3-4 knots at 1/4 distance. you will see a big improvement   

[vin]

Hi Edmond, I am using jb leaders. 

[Edmond Dragut]

check your lines to be equal. If they are use the forward knot from handles on bottom and also on top. try to launch. if is not happening move a knot in on top lines and try again till the kite is launching. that is the best setup  

[makatakam]

9 hours ago, vin said:

Firstly, winds are shitty at this point in Singapore. Weather Apps are not very accurate. But I did try to fly today and was scrutinizing everything to do with my flying style and I stumbled across while looking at my lines. While my handles are straight(hover position on handle) , my top lines are taut while brake lines are slack. Won't this cause my brakes to be less reactive? (I find my turns very slow. Prior to changing leaders, my turns were very reactive with the slightest move of my brake lines) Won't making my brake lines taut more or less equivalent to my top have equal reaction to forward and reverse bias? So, moving my handles in forward drives makes the Reflex XX move forward and also making reverse flight reaction quicker. 

The slack in the brake lines and slow reaction to turning when you use brake to initiate a turn are both good indicators that you are not using enough brake. Try one more knot of brake each time you fly, and then one more after about an hour. As I mentioned above, you're not going to like it at first, but you will get used to it. It sounds and feels counterintuitive, but the kite will actually move faster with additional brake up to a point. That is the point you want to reach. Most experienced pilots will fly with their brakes set two to four knots beyond this point, sacrificing some speed to gain exponentially more control. The wind is what determines how the kite flies, so the more of it pushing against the sail as opposed to sliding off of it will determine speed, agility, pull and precision. You are trying to achieve a balanced compromise of these to have control of what the kite does. You can fly at the extremes, for instance lots of forward drive to gain speed, but then you sacrifice the others, each to a different degree. Where you set the line on the knots is based on what you want to achieve, but until you are comfortable with ALL of the possibilities you have not learned complete control. If you ever want to be able to fly really well in 2mph down to 0mph wind, or wind that is howling at 25mph or more, you must become familiar with all aspects of tuning. And trust me, to fly in 2mph wind and look like a pro, you will be using near maximum brake, in other words setting the angle of the sail to the wind nearly as square as possible for maximum pressure to keep it aloft.

Just keep trying to use more and more brake each time and with time you will be able to feel the difference. And choose good wind to learn in as I mentioned. Bad wind is not helpful. Once you master basic control and can tune your kite to take advantage of conditions you'll be able to handle whatever the wind throws your way assuming the kite you use can handle it too.

It's a journey that never ends -- enjoy it.

[John Barresi]

Aye, agreed.

Also, when growin into a brake heavier setting, the kite will need to be “activated” to start flying as opposed to a lazy “lift off”... The snap tension in all four lines, favoring the top, often referred to as sail loading or “whump”.

Note the “double tap” in my launch, one to pressurize the sail, flex the frame and jump up, the second CONNECTS with and holds onto the tension of all four lines (favoring forward or thumbs back).

[John Barresi]

Also, brake heavier settings allow you to keep the forward gas on more freely without fear of too much gas - conversely, your bottom lines also become MUCH more sensitive, and should only require small tension inputs to achieve the same performance results you had with less brake.