Handle mods (snagless)

[makatakam]

I meant just the knots on the loops attached to the handles. See where you have some extra line sticking out of a couple of them? With the lighter you make that disappear and make sure that the knot doesn't unravel. The painted knots on the leaders are cool. Have you tried painting the line between them?

[happysuperbutton]

Will this mod lessen the chance of lines snagging on leader knots? My top line constantly catches on the bottom line where the leaders are..quite bothersome. It doesn't tangle on the metal ring.

 

Thanks!

[Wayne Dowler]

Are they too long? You could shorten them to only include 1 or 2 extra knots that you might need? How many are hanging down?

[Wayne Dowler]

But Sari - we know that at times you have to fly on different knots if you've got stretched lines and need to do a quick field equalizing, before doing a proper re-equalizing. Just did it this weekend on a relatively new set, during the grid practice. (Lucked out, it was a bottom line!)

[SparkieRob]

Will this mod lessen the chance of lines snagging on leader knots? My top line constantly catches on the bottom line where the leaders are..quite bothersome. It doesn't tangle on the metal ring.
 
Thanks!

Could possibly work, making the grooves of the knot slightly smoother. But I think they may still catch. For my bottom leaders, I have only one knot. I do all my adjusting with the tops.

Are you catching it with a large forward drive input? (Thumbs right back).

Sent from a Galaxy 8 Far Far Down Under.

[John Barresi]

Aye, if you’re catching your bottom leaders/handles on your top lines, that’s “hand slop”... Bottom of the handles don’t need to touch the top lines for effective forward, and that can also mean a pilot is “bouncing” their bottom lines which messes with sail power (on/off/on/off).

If this is the case, imagine the bottom of your handle nearly parallel with or within 1/2” of the top lines but not overlapping, then all pulling comes almost straight “down line” between kite and pilot (less up and down with the hands).

[wakechick]

18 hours ago, makatakam said:

I meant just the knots on the loops attached to the handles. See where you have some extra line sticking out of a couple of them? With the lighter you make that disappear and make sure that the knot doesn't unravel. The painted knots on the leaders are cool. Have you tried painting the line between them?

Ah, yes. I know what you mean. I did melt them a little with a lighter, but not as much as you suggest. I like that idea, and I'll do that tonight. 

I have not tried painting the line between the knots. I paint it so thick with several coats that I'm pretty sure it would crack and peel off.

[makatakam]

20 hours ago, happysuperbutton said:

Will this mod lessen the chance of lines snagging on leader knots? My top line constantly catches on the bottom line where the leaders are..quite bothersome. It doesn't tangle on the metal ring.

 

Thanks!

Are you sure it's catching on the line? Is it perhaps catching on the handle that sticks out beyond the hog ring? The answer is: Yes, the mod will help, but as JB said, it is caused primarily by "hand slop", something that you will fly yourself out of with time. Did you notice that it usually happens when you try to quickly compensate for a "not-so-good" move, and that's what makes it really annoying? Definitely mod your handles to no-snag. Two dollars and thirty minutes will make it go away, but do continue to improve the accuracy of your inputs -- that is the best remedy.

[SHBKF]

Flying a Rev 1.5 SLE full vent at the beach in high winds I had one of my modded bottom connectors pull free causing a crashing bow tie sorta in control landing. The bottom left line shot forward going out about fifty feet or so.  Guess the wind was pretty stout & I overloaded the brake popping the connector loose.  Pressing it back in with a little sand for a snug interference fit held for a bit but popped out again eventually.  Now, back at the Kite Dungeon, I will investigate the issue & perhaps install a new wall anchor or just epoxy the old one into the tube after careful cleaning. Fortunately I had a small day hiking bag full of handles back at the camper so a field repair was not necessary.   Below image shows the kite loaded up quite well.   SHBKF

[Reef Runner]

Looking good there Ralph.............🤠

[makatakam]

7 hours ago, SHBKF said:

Now, back at the Kite Dungeon, I will investigate the issue & perhaps install a new wall anchor or just epoxy the old one into the tube after careful cleaning.

Or just use a larger diameter screw so it is really hard to screw in. That should put enough lateral pressure on the tube wall to keep it in place.

[Reef Runner]

Yes Ralph, as Mark mentioned, maybe your screw was not of adequate size.  In every modification that I did, I always used a #10 SS screw, along with a tight fitting anchor (never had one come outj.  

And as for attaching the leader, I simply looped it over the head of the screw, just under the head, tightening it (the screw) down, just enough to touch the leader.  And contrary to some, I wanted the leader to be free to shift around to either side, rather than being tied in place.  The rubber cap will keep things from disconnecting, and with the right anchor & screw, hopefully the whole thing won’t pull out.

 

 

[SHBKF]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I indeed have used a smaller screw, a #8 Zinc plated steel flat head wood screw.  After looking at my on hand hardware I suspect it is a matter of what I had available at the time.  It also may be the recommended screw size for the wall anchor used.  The #10 screw is nominally 0.026" larger shank diameter & 0.053" larger head diameter if a flat head type.  I notice that I have deburred & smoothed the tube ends very carefully so that may have made it come loose more easily.  Looks like I will stop by the hardware store for some #10 screws tomorrow.  Appears that yours are round head sheet metal screws Nick.  I only have two sets of handles with this modification so it won't take long to correct them.

Appreciate you guys, SHBKF

The below set, still in use, has not had this failure.

[Wayne Dowler]

I  used the round head screws that came with the plugs. Only thing I didn't like was it was threaded clear to the top. My solution was to chuck the screw in an electric drill and used a file to knock down the sharp thread edges. And the round heads can't cut the caps. 

Years of use and no failures.

[makatakam]

@SHBKF The bottom leaders on the handles in your picture could be a bit shorter. I usually have two or sometimes three knots in my bottom leaders to allow for on-the-run instant line equalization should the need arise on the field. If you tie another knot or two at the same interval as the top leaders it will both shorten them about 3/8" per knot and allow adjustment when they become necessary. You may leave them as they are, and just keep mind that you can tie one should you need to make an adjustment. Of course, you probably already knew this, but I figured, hey, maybe the newer flyers will take note.

[makatakam]

3 hours ago, Reef Runner said:

Yes Ralph, as Mark mentioned, maybe your screw was not of adequate size.  In every modification that I did, I always used a #10 SS screw, along with a tight fitting anchor (never had one come outj.

I checked the handles I have modded, and yes, #10 round head screws. The round head also has a thread that stops short of the head by close to 3/32" and I buried the thread within the anchor. I cleaned the burr off the outside of the tube, but left it intact on the inside, figuring it would help hold the anchor when expanded by the screw. I recall that I did have to force a couple of the anchors because of the burr. I used a clove hitch to secure the leader to the screw. I noticed that the vinyl cap does hold everything in position, but I didn't trust that just looping it over the screw would keep it secure so I threw the clove hitch on. I also never had either of the two sets I did fail, and I made these mods more than five years ago. Still ticking.

As a note to those who will be making this modification: If you get an idea about how it may be done otherwise, please, do let us know. We're always on the lookout for ways to improve performance. Don't be shy. Join the party!

[Reef Runner]

Hey Ralph,  the only reason I used SS was because of the beach factor.  The handles are already SS.  And again, as Mark mentioned, just add 2-3 evenly spaced knots, in those bottom leaders.  That will shorten them up a bit and give you the adjustment capability mentioned above....😁

[Chook]

As "SparkieRob" said, our wall- plugs are parallel and there is no way they could pull out once the screw is added.

It's tough enough to hammer them into the handle as they are that firm.

I do grind a taper onto the opposite end and drive this end into the handle first, to leave a perfectly rounded top just a whisker proud of the stainless tube, so there is no chance it will wear the leaders.

[Carl Norman]

Did something different for my snagless.  Put my handles in a bench vise and drilled a hole perpendicular to the punched hole that is already in the handles, then cleaned and smoothed everything up with a rotary tool.  Last bit critical so you don't wear on your leaders.

After that simply a lark's head using my newly drilled orifice and finally put the original cap back on.  Preserves original height of the handles (jeez, I'm already getting picky with my setup!) and you don't have to mess around with screws or shoving plastic down a hole.

[Wayne Dowler]

Got a feeling you'll still get wear from that hole, no matter how smooth. But we'll see ....

By the way - what did you larkshead to?

[Reef Runner]

Yep, and pictures would explain a lot.....

[Carl Norman]

Lark's head to the whole tube handle. Sucks up maybe 1/2" of the leader but not hard to accommodate.

Will let you know how the wear goes - made it pretty smooth!

[Wayne Dowler]

Have to see it, can't picture it. But metal rubbing on bridle line can cause failure - maybe.

Figured it out - you drilled through both sides. Any wear will occur at the hole where the leader exits. Maybe the vinyl cap will keep it from rubbing and wearing.

[SparkieRob]

I tried filling the tips with resin then drilling the holes at 90° like you mentioned but couldn't get the aperture but free enough. Wore through leader savers quite quickly.

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[Carl Norman]

The wear was intense with my method.  After one week of flying the leaders were practically gone!

So I put a flanged nylon bushing in the holes, now the leader is only touching the hard nylon (except for where the larks head part is) and after a week it's showing zero wear.

You still end up shoving plastic in a hole I guess, but super happy with it now.