4 lines... your choices

[p23brian]

On 9/11/2016 at 2:13 PM, kitedad said:

 There was no mesh along the top, instead there are a series of 3/4 in holes in line along the LE. 

When I was speaking to the folks at Ocean Shores Kites about my purchase they said that the 2017 model kites have the holes and the 2016 and earlier have mesh.  They gave me the choice as they still had both in stock.  I went with the 2017 model with the holes.  

[kitedad]

I'm wondering if there's any difference in performance between the two. There's been no problem so far with the mesh on ours, albeit the kites are put away for the season now. pretty kite unfrlendly weather this time of year here.  We're still new to quads and didn't realize there was a problem with the mesh on the rev kites till after much research. We had already purchased the vertigo without knowing about the problems with rev's or the creasing on the vertigo's. I didn't want to invest 3-400 dollars on a rev for my boy without knowing if he would stick with the quads, his other kites are all two line. - the vertigo was well recommended (thanks Wayne and Andy) and much less money. so-- If he wants to stick with the quads which he seems to like a lot now, maybe I'll look into a rev in the future. For now the Vertigo is holding it's own pretty well and there's no compelling reason to change at this time.  Andy at osk's kite's is a good egg, I trust his opinion a lot and would not hesitate to take his advice or buy from him again.

[Wayne Dowler]

Better? Not sure I would call it better, just different. The hole style LE is supposed to hold up better, over a longer time. Many have considered the mesh to be the weakest link in the Rev design, the holes eliminate that. I haven't had the chance to fly one to give you my opinion on whether it feels any different. Sooner or later I will.

[makatakam]

I have Revs that will be eight years old this coming season, specifically the SLE and the Phantom full-vent that were the first two in my quiver. I have flown those two very much, especially the SLE, and have done a lot of modifications to them. They have been flown more than 20 days per year, 10 hours per day on average for about 5 years until I got my B-Pros. The mesh still looks just fine. If you are careful to pack them away correctly each time, and don't spend 3-5 days per week flying, it will be a long time before they begin to fall apart. 

I also have kites that I built, using the hot-cut holes at the leading edge, and have noticed some fraying at the edges of the holes. Of course these were my first attempts at building quads and pre-date the Revs from a time when I couldn't afford to buy the real thing. My avatar is one of them, and is made of nylon ripstop, not polyester.

Everything on a kite will eventually wear out; it is unavoidable. How long it takes depends on the quality of the build, how much you fly it, your flying style, and how well you take care of it. The kite brands you are considering are well-made and should last quite some time with just a bit of care. The weaknesses noted here are by flyers who spend more time flying each week than many people spend working. If you know where the materials will eventually fail, you can take preventive measures to at least delay the failure.

That's one of my early home-made with the SLE behind it. As you can see, it's just a tad on the large side.

[Steve Jenkins]

3 hours ago, makatakam said:

That's one of my early home-made with the SLE behind it. As you can see, it's just a tad on the large side.

Wow, it sure is! Really nice looking, too. What's the leading edge length on that one, I'm guessing maybe 125".

[RobB]

That self-built Rev is awesome. Good looking & big ? My kinda kite.
As far as the mesh... Get those ''mods" done on a REV. My 2013 mid-vent mesh only lasted 1.5 years before needing repair & reinforcement. My 2009 full-vent lasted 5+ years. Granted, a small sample, but that's my observation.

[makatakam]

6 hours ago, Steve Jenkins said:

Wow, it sure is! Really nice looking, too. What's the leading edge length on that one, I'm guessing maybe 125".

Only 102.

[p23brian]

On 9/11/2016 at 5:11 PM, riffclown said:

Never met him but his reputation all around sounds like he's OK.. i know others that have dealt/talked with him. OSK seems to be the North American Distributor..The kites I got from Kites Unlimited also had the OSK Branding.

Shortest path to the source for issues would make them a stop in any problem resolution.

 

I can vouch for this.  My one and only quad is a Freilein Exodus that I ordered from OSK a few weeks ago.  I had a minor problem with one of the spars so I called them and spoke to Andy.  He offered to send me a new spar right away, and also told me how I might be able to fix the one I had.  Turned out to be an easy fix and I didn't need the new rod after all.  Andy was as helpful as he could possibly be.  The problem was a ferrule that came loose and slipped all the way inside the rod.  He said he'd never had this happen with any Freilein rods before.

[p23brian]

On 9/11/2016 at 6:31 PM, kitedad said:

When I bought the vertigo he told me straight up the sail material in the vertigo line is p20 I think he called it, is new to kites and has not been tried and tested in service for years like p31, icarex they call it which is used in the exodus line. The p20 sail in a std.is a little lighter and can fly in a little less wind than the exodus std.

I considered this too, and did a quick calculation.  The difference in weight between p20 and p31 is 4.75 grams per square yard.  If the sail is 1.5 square yards that's only 7.125 grams total.   The difference in wind pressure required to lift the two sails would be measured in thousandths of a mph.  I decided to go with the Exodus which uses the p31.  Being brand new to quads I didn't think I'd notice the difference.

[kitedad]

Solid choice, the Exodus, One thing my boy noticed last season about the Vertigo is that it would fly in slightly less wind than any of the Rev's on the field, maybe just 1/2 mph or so but it did make some difference as to flying or just sitting in a chair. I'm not talking about a Zen though. I don't know if there's any difference in wind speed between the Exodus and the Vertigo as far as that goes, only what is stated on osk web site. Sometime last summer I noticed the wind speed rating   had changed on the Vertigo from 3-15 to 4-15. The Exodus has always been rated for 4-15-----hmm. I think for a lot of people who live inland it won't matter much as the wind varyies more than it does here. The wind is usually quite calm most of the time here and fairly stable, We are on Puget Sound, north of Seattle so every little bit helps. After I bought the Vertigo I went back and forth about whether I made the right decision buying the Vertigo and not the Exodus, I'm still a little... up in the air about it all.

[John Barresi]

On 9/11/2016 at 11:25 AM, hyzakite said:

Revs forum was for the rev fliers not for Revs people to answer all the topics and posts, they never did as far as I remember, well except for Ben.

Minor trivia...

I built Rev's entire website for them, twice.

The Rev forum was actually my creation, managed by me and other enthusiasts - Rev was never really present there except for Ben, and the recent posts reflect all that (very little product specific discussion / mostly event and personal news).

Their forum is now being managed by David Hathaway (iQuad co-founder) and all my admin privileges are gone but with company loyalty fading I don't expect much to happen there in the future.

[riffclown]

It's quite interesting to see the mindset shifts going on in the kiting world.. Still a lot of Rev loyalist but also other options being discussed across the boards. A year ago this topic would have been borderline taboo or at least polarizing. Thank you for keeping the conversation open and friendly.

Things I've seen and heard discussed include:

• Assorted Revs including speculation on the next big thing.
• Freilein Vertigo and Exodus
• Freilein Traneye
• Phoenix
• Lam's ABS
• Fulcrum
• Magi-Q
• Spirit Quad
• Something Home Made
• Lam's Vietnamese Flute
• Stunt foils like the Smithi or my Symphony Conversion
• A New "Something Something" or two we don't fully know about yet.

Waiting to see who will be testing the waters there..Will be interesting to see things progress as we get into the Spring and Summer kiting events.

Original Topic start updated to reflect this post.

[John Barresi]

1 hour ago, riffclown said:

It's quite interesting to see the mindset shifts going on in the kiting world.. Still a lot of Rev loyalist but also other options being discussed across the boards. A year ago this topic would have been borderline taboo or at least polarizing. Thank you for keeping the conversation open and friendly.

This. 

I'm a firm believer that kiting is the fliers, not the stores or manufacturers, and I've seen the results of both paths repeated numerous times over the past 26 years... End of the day, we fly, we talk, the relative truth(s) reveal themselves through transparency and dialogue.

Really, I couldn't be prouder of the community y'all make out of this space every day. 

[John Barresi]

I think we're going to see the quad market defined by end users more and more over the next couple of years as some companies focus on following the evolution of the "sport" or "performance" level fliers and other companies shift their focus more toward the absolute front end first and second time kite buyers... Both end users are completely valid and need products specifically for them, but the first approach requires you to be present and empathic to the community, the latter allows you to dictate what is new and appropriate to a class of buyers who aren't experienced yet.

Good news is that if everyone generally plays fair cricket and good folks are actively out there sharing the passion with others, we should see both ends thrive.

That being said, I can't help but imagine how it must have been for Tony Hawk (pro skateboard) and the other "godfathers" of modern skating who transitioned it from a "blond white boy in short shorts on a thin yellow board" to scruffy, cool looking kids flying through the air on wood boards with sticky tape on them... Some companies saw what was happening, others had tunnel vision on the market as it existed up until that point and told the scruffy kids they were using the equipment in ways that it shouldn't be - seems there may be some correlation here.

Also, imagine for a moment that the first dual line delta kite had been properly patented and such... How would that have affected evolution of dual lines? Would we still have seen folks the likes of Tim Benson, Lam Hoac, Ken McNeill, etc if they couldn't make or sell that kind of kite during their formative years in the 90s?

Anyway, I think diversity in this case is great - the next couple of years should be really fun. 

[SparkieRob]

Evolution of the species...


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[riffclown]

2 hours ago, John Barresi said:

That being said, I can't help but imagine how it must have been for Tony Hawk (pro skateboard) and the other "godfathers" of modern skating who transitioned it from a "blond white boy in short shorts on a thin yellow board" to scruffy, cool looking kids flying through the air on wood boards with sticky tape on them...

I remember the late 70's and moving from street to half pipes and skateparks in the early 80's!  Also had a couple of original Alvas that I passed on to my nephews. I still have my Wally Inouye pool model. 

[jedijon]

Full sail models of the Freileins are running 180/220 without lines/handles. Those're available bundled for $70, and shipping is ~$15 CONUS for the lot.

 

So I dunno, $300 for the kite doesn't sound like the "half rev prices" I've been reading about in this thread.

 

I'm just eying quads. As in, I don't have one yet. The $200 intro rev seems the best deal. It's interesting that there's no $100 option for those folks who are curious but not ready to plunge and/or just don't wish to drop $300+ to be part of the gang.

[John Barresi]

It's hard to beat the EXP ready to fly package for the price, and I still like Rev's spars better than anyone else's for a 1.5 sized kite.

[Wayne Dowler]

When you hear 1/2 the price - remember that many of us already have lines and handles. So for us it is much cheaper, if you are just replacing an equal type. Hence the 1/2 price!

Yes it is expensive to join in. Unfortunately,there is no good inexpensive alternative available that flies well. Most, if not all the "cheapies" are in fact copies, and don't come near the quality set by those the copies are based on.

The EXP isn't a bad start up kite. It will do everything any other Rev can do, just with a different feel to it. And that "feel" comes with time on the lines. I seriously doubt that any beginner can really tell what kite he has in his hands. But over time you develop a connection to your gear, knowing what it takes to make it work. It becomes a part of you. An old friend!

If money is your guiding factor - the EXP isn't a bad buy. But be aware of one thing - no one single kite can do it all. Most of us have several different configurations of one style. Myself, I fly Rev "B" pros in 5 different venting types or models. Because I fly in a team - we have as many options to choose from as we can. That can get expensive!!

 

And the only thing an EXP package needs to start - a stake!

[makatakam]

3 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

And the only thing an EXP package needs to start - a stake!

Wayne's wrong. It also needs YOU!

If you want to get in fairly cheap, keep an eye on used Revs on eBay, or go to a kite festival and talk to the Rev pilots there. Someone may have an old one they don't fly anymore that they can sell for a good price. I recommend getting new lines. The handles can be used, or make them yourself. Not too difficult if you're at least half-handy. An old junk screwdriver or a pointy stick will work as a stake. Making your own golf-ball style stake is super easy.

If you have any questions about anything kite related, ask them here. We can help you so you don't spend money on "junk".

[Robertsepolen]

So, I just want to know which quad to buy as a beginner. Half of what you guys said is over my head. 

Help guys!

[John Barresi]

5 minutes ago, Robertsepolen said:

So, I just want to know which quad to buy as a beginner. Half of what you guys said is over my head. 

Help guys!

What part of the world are you in?

What kind of place would you usually fly, beach or inland?

Average wind speed?

Flying once a month or every weekend?

Whats your budget?

Just a few of the questions any kite vendor worth their salt should also ask.  

[riffclown]

25 minutes ago, John Barresi said:

What part of the world are you in?

What kind of place would you usually fly, beach or inland?

Average wind speed?

Flying once a month or every weekend?

Whats your budget?

Just a few of the questions any kite vendor worth their salt should also ask.  

@Robertsepolen  100%Agreed with @John Barresi and there's no shortage of guidance here to hopefully steer you in the right direction.. You very likely have folks near you that will happily let you try different options..

Most Likely we will steer you towards an EXP or similar kite unless you are in a windy area.. It is considered entry level and is a kite you can enjoy  and learn with.

[SparkieRob]

So, I just want to know which quad to buy as a beginner. Half of what you guys said is over my head. 
Help guys!

Hey mate.
It's not too bad.
Which bits didn't you understand? It's all friendly here.

As a beginner, get a rtf (ready to fly) package. This comes with everything you need to go straight from your letterbox to the flying field.


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[makatakam]

@Robertsepolen I'm assuming that you're in the Walla Walla, Washington area.

The least expensive way to get started with a quality quad-line kite is to purchase a "ready to fly" (RTF) package in the Revolution Kite model EXP for about $210 including shipping. It is available in a standard sail only, which is meant for wind in the 3-15mph range. This will get you started, and if you get really into it you can expand your collection to cover the higher wind ranges.

There is no "one size fits all" kite, so you will be limited to flying in winds of 4-12mph initially until you gain experience. You won't get off the ground in wind less than 4mph, and will have no control of the kite in wind over 12mph until you have at least 40 hours of flight time. It's not rocket science to learn to fly a quad, but at the same time it's also not a piece of cake. If you have any questions please ask. We'll do our best to help you.