help Silver Fox 2.3 UL Wing Tip Tension Help??

[JaseRicco]

Ok, I received the Silver Fox 2.3 UL today, and it seems complicated to say the least. All I wanted is a kite that is good for low winds, and what I got is this techy, advanced and all too sophisticated kite. So lets start with what I hope is an easy question about tensioning the wing tip and we'll move to more advanced questions about weights, balasts and the color bead coded turbo bridle system(TBS) later on. 

The Zephyr, before I had to return it, had a wing tip tension and leech line that had to be tied. The Silver Fox, however, has a leech line that is already looped and knotted, and a wing tip tension that looks like it is semi-tied. On the Zephyr the leech line had to be tied because you could adjust it to your flying style. Since the leech line on the Silver Fox is already looped and knotted, I'm not sure why it's even there to do anything with. Why wouldn't it just be incorporated in the kite design like it is on the Quantum? I guess it doesn't really much matter as I would assume the leech line loop is simply just looped around the nock. The problem I am having is with the wing tip tension. I can't make heads or tales out of the directions, and have no idea what I am supposed to do with it. I posted some pictures of the wing tip tension line as well as the directions.

I know it will be hard for someone to help me since it's obvious that different kites have different methods of securing wing tip tensions and leech lines. And it will be even harder given the fact that no one is here to physically help me. But have to give it a try anyway. 

 

 

 

 

[Edmond Dragut]

you answered to your own question on second proposition. low wind means you may let the sail more relaxed or to adjust the tension at to a desired degree. do not compare Silver Fox UL with Quantum. there are two different animals. also Quantum do not have that leech line. you may tide knots at equal distance on both tension lines ore make pigtails with desired knots for faster adjustment 

[szobelda]

so...just relax, it gets very easy once you get it and the SilverFox is a great kite to have.

I hope that the pictures below help:

Daniel

 

 

[JaseRicco]

I think I may have figured it out. I posted a few pictures showing how I have secured the leech and tension lines. But when attacahing it the way I did, I run into two possible issues, which probably directly relates to what Edmund is talking about. 

Pic 1 shows the tension line taut so that the sail is tight and smooth pictured in Pic 2. The problem doing it this way is that the leech line seems so loose. 

Pic 3 shows the tension and leech lines taut, but then the sail is loose and bunched pictured in Pic 4. 

Leech line loose or tight, sail loose or tight...is there a wrong and right way here? Is there a reason I would keep it one way or the other?

[kitedad]

If you look on the spine there should be a bungie cord running up about 6-8 in. with the ends of the leach line attached- looped around the bungie. You can loosen the loops and slide the white leach line up and that will tension the leach line. The sail tension should be tight as in pic 1. The leach line is adjustable so that when you tighten up on it, the kite will make less buzzing noise at speed. If you loosen it some it will make more noise. Most of the better kites have this feature but not all. sorry I don't have any pics. The leach line will look as in pic 3 If your kite has no bungie, I'd say something is missing but we have the 2.5 so I can't be 100% sure. Maybe take some pics of the spine will help if your stil having trouble. The buzzing noise is the trailing edge of the kite flapping very rapidly making the noise, its also helps slow the kite down a little when you accelerate. I don't much care for the noise but my boy thinks it's cool, scares birds and stuff, unruly dogs, kite grabbing kiddies ,,the lot.

[dragonfish]

kitedad's answer is probably your solution. However, I just wanted to check if the rest of the kite was completely assembled in pic 1. Often times if the kite is not fully assembled, the leech line will appear loose. It should tighten when the kite is fully assembled and the standoffs are in. 

[JaseRicco]

52 minutes ago, dragonfish said:

...I just wanted to check if the rest of the kite was completely assembled in pic 1. Often times if the kite is not fully assembled, the leech line will appear loose. It should tighten when the kite is fully assembled and the standoffs are in. 

Yes, the kite was fully assembled as you can see in 2 & 4. Thank you for the advice though.

[JaseRicco]

1 hour ago, kitedad said:

The leach line will look as in pic 3 If your kite has no bungie...

Just so I understand, before posting another pic, I should have a combination of pic 2 & 3...taut tension and leech line, with tight leading edges and a smooth sail. 

[JaseRicco]

The back does in fact have a velcro strap, leech line, and bungee. I pulled on the bungee until the leech lines at the nocks was taut, but then the bungee and leech line on the back loosened. So I untied and re-tied the bungee as shown in the circle. I know nothing of knots, so I didn't tie it back using any type of fancy knot, again shown in the circle...can't imagine that this will have an effect on anything as the knot seems sturdy. 

 

[kitedad]

Not right, the bungie should have been left the way it was, instead you loosen the white leach line attached to the bungie and slide it up the bungie. also the white leach line should not be running over the Velcro strap It should be underneath the Velcro so it's not exposed where it can become damaged, that will cut the line and ruin your kite.  I don't know how it got that way but definitely don't fly it like that. I don't have any pics but I can say for sure the leach line should be under the Velcro not on the outside exposed. Your on the right track, you just need to modify what you did a little. Maybe someone else who can explain it  better will help.

[kitedad]

I just checked my boys silver fox and on his there is a small hole in the Velcro about an inch up from the bottom of the Velcro and the leach line goes through that up to the bungie. Something is wrong looking at the picture of the Velcro strap, it doesn't look like mine, the hole on mine is higher up and where it folds over the tailweight is closer the the trailing edge of the kite. something amiss here, the spine too long, tailweight not all the way up into the spine, I can't tell. I could be wrong about this but it sure don't look like mine. I can barely see the hole in the strap on your kite where the leach line goes through but on mine its higher up. you sure don't want anything to happen to the leach line. maybe you should call flying wings about this.

[JaseRicco]

Guess there's noting I can do about how I adjusted it now, unless you're telling me to untie the bungie to loosen, re-tie, and adjust the leech line how you have instructed me to. 

As far as the leech line being exposed on top of the velcro like it is, it came that way, I would assume from the factory. Unless the vendor I purchased the kite from adjusted it that way for some reason, but I don't see why this would be the case. Plus after inspecting the area, I don't see how the leech line could be under the velcro given how they have designed the velcro strap, the hole in the strap, and how they have threaded the leech line through that hole. Maybe they changed the design to a better one at some point. 

 

 

[JaseRicco]

13 minutes ago, kitedad said:

maybe you should call flying wings about this.

I'll give them a call and see what they have to say about this. 

Ever spoken with they're customer service? Are they capable individuals? 

[kitedad]

Perhaps you could leave the bungie the way it is but the standard way is to loosen the leach line and slide it up or down depending on preference. That way you don't have a piece of bungie hanging down for no reason.  no I was wrong about the leach line being under the Velcro, on this kite it has a hole in the strap to go through just like yours shows. The hole just looks too low to me but maybe that's the way yours is supposed to be. Right on the bottom of the kite looks like it could be damaged on landings or something. Maybe they moved the hole up some when they designed the 2.5 I don't recall having talked to their customer service so I can't speak about that but I believe there is a number to call on the fw website. I'd be very careful about the leach line being so close to the bottom, you don't want anything to happen to that.

[JaseRicco]

It could also be that since mine is a UL, and should be flown in lower winds, they figure not much damage could come to the leech line. 

[kitedad]

Why don't we go to chat? you could be right, no way to know, I would keep an eagle on it though.

[makatakam]

14 hours ago, JaseRicco said:

It could also be that since mine is a UL, and should be flown in lower winds, they figure not much damage could come to the leech line. 

Nope, no way the manufacturer would put the leech line where it could contact the ground repeatedly. 

[JaseRicco]

4 minutes ago, makatakam said:

Nope, no way the manufacturer would put the leech line where it contact the ground repeatedly. 

Apparently this manufacture did, beceause as you can see from the photos, there is no way for me to get the leech line on the inside of the velcro strap utilizing the hole that they have provided...just won't work. Are we thinking another defective kite?

After further inspection, it looks like the problem is that they have the leech line threaded through the hole on the inside and outside of the velcro strap. I guess I can untie the leech line from the bungee and thread it through just the hole on the inside of the velcro strap, run it up and re-tie it to the bungee? Sound like a fix? Just not sure why they would have two holes...like it's meant to be on the outside.

[makatakam]

It shouldn't be exposed anywhere except near the tips. Sounds like a routing issue.

[JaseRicco]

Ok...I put a call into Flying Wings, the Rep. had me send some photos, and he said that he will be getting back to me soon. Let's see what they have to say. 

[kitedad]

my boys 2.5 has one hole in the Velcro with the line running up the outside to the bungie. It looks like your picture above in the ninth post but the hole in mine is about an inch higher than yours. I don't see two holes in your Velcro only one. I'm a little confused there. btw, it's my understanding that spectra line should never come in contact with the hook and loop side of Velcro, that's why they have it running up the outside so it doesn't touch the hook and loop on the inside. Other manufactures techniques vary. You should not run the line back inside the Velcro and contact the hook and loop. big no-no

[JaseRicco]

56 minutes ago, kitedad said:

my boys 2.5 has one hole in the Velcro with the line running up the outside to the bungie. It looks like your picture above in the ninth post but the hole in mine is about an inch higher than yours. I don't see two holes in your Velcro only one. I'm a little confused there. btw, it's my understanding that spectra line should never come in contact with the hook and loop side of Velcro, that's why they have it running up the outside so it doesn't touch the hook and loop on the inside. Other manufactures techniques vary. You should not run the line back inside the Velcro and contact the hook and loop. big no-no

I composed that post while I was at work today, and was writing it tot he best of my recollection. After getting home and taking a look, there is in fact only one hole...you are correct. 

Just so I understand, the leech line on your 2.5 looks like the leech line on my 2.3 UL, and I should leave it the way it is. 

[kitedad]

3 hours ago, JaseRicco said:

Just so I understand, the leech line on your 2.5 looks like the leech line on my 2.3 UL, and I should leave it the way it is.

yes just like your except as noted in my post above the hole in mine is about an inch higher than yours. I don't know if that's cause for concern but I would wait till I heard from flying wings. I wouldn't even fly it, maybe you'll get lucky and they will send you a new kite. Sorry for the delay, I had to go to town, we are leaving tomorrow for the kite festival in long beach, wa. I won't be able to post anything for about a week. good luck. yes leave it the way it is at least for now.

[JaseRicco]

This is what I received from Flying Wings...

 

"Good morning Jason,

 

Yes, indeed, that is correct. The first generation SF 2.5 and SF 2.3, the Leach line were designed and built exactly like that. It is later on with the SF-Pro the leach line was enclosed inside the Velcro strap.

 

Thank you very much for your enthusiasm with Flying Wing's Silver Fox kites!

 

Best regards,

 

Edward"

[makatakam]

10 hours ago, JaseRicco said:

This is what I received from Flying Wings...

 

"Good morning Jason,

 

Yes, indeed, that is correct. The first generation SF 2.5 and SF 2.3, the Leach line were designed and built exactly like that. It is later on with the SF-Pro the leach line was enclosed inside the Velcro strap.

 

Thank you very much for your enthusiasm with Flying Wing's Silver Fox kites!

 

Best regards,

 

Edward"

Wow! No kidding? I would seriously check out the method they used to put the leech line inside the velcro and make that modification as soon as possible. Leech lines are a royal pain to re-do when they wear out or break. First one I've heard of designed that way.