A bit confused Where to start?

[prighello]

Hello,

I have been flying single line kites for many years and recently became interested in dual line kites after seeing one flown at the beach. I've read a bunch but I'm still confused about where to start. Line material and length, wing sizes and shapes, frame materials, precision vs trick vs ??? There is a lot more to this than I thought.

I'd like to get a decent kite that can be controlled to make right and left turns and spin around a bit. I don't think I'm all that interested in tricks, more just controlling the flight of the kite and feeling it tug. What I really liked about the kite I saw was how fast and noisy it was. I see a lot of stuff about getting kites for tricks but what about for just flying around like I've mentioned?

I live by the beach on the central coast of California and it is often windy here but I've no real idea of the speed; enough to howl at my house in the evenings. Anyway, can anyone recommend a kite or two for what I've mention in the $50-$80 range? The other thing I'd not so sure about it framed vs foils. I don't want something that is really tough to fly that I will crash all the time and get frustrated by. One of my single line kites is like this and crashes a lot to the point where I'm about to trash the thing.

Final note is I'd like something not too huge as I like to hike and having something I fit in a pack or in the back seat of my car would be a plus.

Thank you for the help!

[KiteKouple]

Just going to chime in and let the pros Give solid advice after.
One thing that you mentioned (key words): feeling tug / noise.

I like/prefer foil kites for pull and some noise and they are small and fit in small case for carrying around on carabiner on backpack. One brand is - HQ carries the following Symphony Beach SportKite in various sizes.


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[Edmond Dragut]

foils are great for start to gain the basic control and are virtually indestructible and pocket pack and expect some hard pull at 2.5 M. do not go IMO bigger then 3 M. you have here couple brands to pick and TeamVee suggested already Symphony 

framed kites are having the property you already know,to break.for beginning is happening so be prepared with spare parts. 

Wingspan preferably to start medium at least, 71-84 inches. smaller are lighting fast bigger are have some pull. a great solid all around kite for start is Prism Quantum if you do not mind a bit of pull in 15 + mph and on top of that is a screamer who will make people to look after. is more then 80$ but is worth any penny.

lines all the time just birded an you have couple brands without major differences in between. length -  from 60 to 120 your preference. longer lines more time to react also slower kite reaction 

Last but not list a STAKE. important tool to anchor your kite when you explain to auditorium the last show you staged. remember - foil kites are all the time parked up side down.

if you pick foil or framed is your choice. i bet now after the first kite second one will come in weeks. foils are do left right up down spins and to this add tricks on framed.

Have fun  

 

[makatakam]

Hi, Prighello, and welcome to the forum. I look forward to sharing the wind with you someday. Everything you need can be found here.

Yup, everything they said. A foil at 2.5 meters or less is what the doctor ordered if you want something that is very packable, and falls in the $50 to $80 price range you mentioned. Otherwise, just about anything will fit in the back seat, unassembled. You will crash more than a few times when you're just starting to learn how to control the kite, so something without a hard frame would definitely be more forgiving and decrease the downtime caused by breakage.

The Quantum as Edmund mentioned is a sturdy dual-line delta and will provide years of fun, although you may have to replace a frame member on occasion or repair a sail puncture. As in all undertakings, mistakes are how you learn the task. Then there's quad-line kites which can open up an entirely new, very tasty, can of worms.

Get something you can use as a stake to hold down the handles when you park the kite while not actively flying it. A long screwdriver is what many people start with or you can purchase a stake made for kiting when you get the kite.

The bottom line is this. Just do it. Pick one and let it fly. There really is no wrong way to get into it. They will all make you grin.

Have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe.

[prighello]

Thank you folks for all the feedback and advice. I found a good deal on a Prism Hypnotist and it seemed to be a beginner friendly kite so I ordered it.

The thing looks big but it breaks down to a manageable size. I figure I might as well get something solid plus the DVD will hopefully help me out. I will follow up once I get kite and fly it. Thank also for informing me about needing a stake; I had no idea.

If there is anything else I should know please share and thank you all again.

[John Barresi]

Be sure to stretch and equalize your lines, “package” kites often include “factory” line sets which will do the job but often stretch unevenly after just one flight... Tether to something solid, put a little body weight into stretching them, then check the offset.

Quick equalization and you’re golden.

 

[makatakam]

The first few times you fly do it in wind that is neither too high nor too low. Keep it in the 6-10mph range if possible. You will learn very little about controlling the kite if you spend 90% of the time fighting the wind or the lack of it. Choose wind that will help instead of hinder you. Fly 20 minutes, take a 10 minute break. Let the muscle memory sink in. Don't think -- usually the opposite of what you thought is what makes it work. Besides, the kite moves faster than you can think. Feel what it does and react mildly. Small to medium moves in normal wind are all you need. Move forward during wind gusts. Move backward during lulls. Develop a feel for what the kite wants to do and use that to your advantage. Let the wind do the work for you.

[Edmond Dragut]

😄 Good start ! Hypnotist is a great kite to on the large side and double price then you ask for. You keep the bet ?😉

[prighello]

7 hours ago, Edmond Dragut said:

😄 Good start ! Hypnotist is a great kite to on the large side and double price then you ask for. You keep the bet ?😉

IDK about keeping the bet now as I kind of just jumped into the middle? I hope I won't feel the need to get another kite a few weeks later but my curiosity about foils might do me in :)

[Edmond Dragut]

is coming !!! you will loose  

[Breezin]

Never flown one but have read good things about the Hypnotist. Think you are starting on a really good kite. With the Hypnotist I bet you'll be doing tricks before you know it. You'll be flying along make a mistake  and the kite will do something really cool looking. Guess what you can repeat it. I've got a Prism 1.4 Snapshot that really helped me gain confidence in control. Kites a blast in 20 mph but gets a little boring after a bit.Don't fly it much anymore but doubt I'll ever get rid of it.Some days trick learning gets frustrating and I start getting to aggressive. In winds 10+ I can whip out the foil, slam it around a bit and it gives me a nice attitude adjustment. I've got a vented kite that I've had in a little over 30 which is still scary for me right now. Haven't had it long and still learning the kite. My next foil will be a Spiderkite Neon 1.2. Need to get better first. Kites rated up to 45 mph winds and will go over 100 mph. That should keep anybodies attention.35+  gets a little hard for me to stand up in let alone fly a kite. Gonna try though. It's not a bad idea to get a cheap 20 or 30 dollar foil to start but it is better to get one with a good line set. Spectra or Dyneema. The Snapshot comes with a nice 100' x 150# set that I use on 3 framed kites quite a lot. I have 82' x 90#, 100' x 130# /150#, 120' x 50# and 125' x 90#. Fly the 100' lines the most. When first starting out I was more comfortable on 82' lines in 90# and 150#.Getting better on the 125'. Hypnotist has a great stated wind range. To complement that I would suggest the Prism 4D as your next kite. It's a well thought of light wind kite and flea bay has 5 left at $77.00. That's a really good deal. Has no pull and it's not loud though. Good luck on only having 1 framed duel 🛒. I absolutely  suck at it.

[makatakam]

Every kite ever made has its limitations. There is no one-size-fits-all as far as wind conditions go. You have two choices. You can either fly the kite you have when conditions are good for that kite, or you can get more kites so your arsenal covers more of the possible wind conditions. Three kites is what most people who really enjoy it and want to fly often end up with. One for low or close to zero wind, one for the mid-range and one for strong wind that approaches 25 mph. For most folks below 2 mph or above 25 mph is beer/TV time. There are kites made for those conditions, but they are specialty kites and can be expensive. What you will end up with in your kite bag depends on how badly you get the bug. For example, I fly mostly quad-line and have 14 quad-line kites in my bag. Do I need 14? No, I could get by with 7, but I like to have back-ups. I also have four or five duals, and about the same number of SLK's. It allows me to match my mood to the wind.

All you need is just enough to make you smile. After that it's all gravy.

[Breezin]

Lets see here. Most people end up with 3. Got 14 but with seemingly a lot of pain and effort could get by on a mere 7. You are truly a bad influence Makatakam. I have 7 duels and a awful desire to get another. I fly in less than 2 and in 25+. I guess I could suffer and only have 4. But what would I backup the backup with that needed backing up with the backup that I backed up with the other backup that needs backing up while waiting for parts for the backup. WOW I need 14 kites.

[makatakam]

12 hours ago, Breezin said:

Lets see here. Most people end up with 3. Got 14 but with seemingly a lot of pain and effort could get by on a mere 7. You are truly a bad influence Makatakam. I have 7 duels and a awful desire to get another. I fly in less than 2 and in 25+. I guess I could suffer and only have 4. But what would I backup the backup with that needed backing up with the backup that I backed up with the other backup that needs backing up while waiting for parts for the backup. WOW I need 14 kites.

Exactly!

[Paul LaMasters]

At least 14 kites in your "A" bag,.....

[makatakam]

1 hour ago, Paul LaMasters said:

At least 14 kites in your "A" bag,.....

I don't have a "B" bag. It's either "A" bag or no bag. My arsenal isn't extensive, but it's deadly.

[prighello]

Okay, the kite arrived yesterday and I took it out today. There was not much wind and the window was really small so I got to try a lot of hovering type stuff and soft landing. I watched a bunch of videos on how to fly but forgot most it. One thing I noticed is that the kite is slow to react to input but maybe this is just the low wind thing. The wind was so weak that a few times the kite did some crazy tricky looking stuff but I didn't have anything to do with it. The thing spent half the time on the ground at some odd angle.

I really had trouble with recovery. I kept getting the kite stuck face down and facing me after trying to recover it from some other old angle. I tried the pop up recovery I saw in an old Prism video on youtube but I could not do it. Two quick tugs one to pop the other to get it up. I must have tried 50 times! The freaking kite just will not pop. Maybe its the beach sand? Anyway I must have walked to the kite 30 time today...fun stuff.

The other thing I need to figure out is the winding of the lines. I took a break and wound the lines up on the winder. I was pretty careful about how I did it but when I went to unwind boy oh boy did I have a tangled mess. The lines were wrapped around one another for maybe a 100 turns. I spent 30 minutes getting it all sorted out. There must be a "correct" way to do this that I missed.

Anyway, a few times the wind kicked up and the kite hauled a bit buzzing around. This was fun, I like speed, pull, and noise. I figure if I can go out on a day with some real wind then I'll likely have a bit more of a good time. But hey I didn't break anything today so all is well

I will say the best part might have been when a seagull came and stole my lunch from my pack. I chased the beast up and down the beach trying to get my stuff back. Mainly because I didn't want it to to get hurt eating plastic.

[Breezin]

Watch the JB tutorial on line winding. Make a figure 8 around the horns.I was pretty clumsy at the start but you'll pick it up pretty fast. My 1st few flights were in low wind too. Very frustrating. Learning to keep wind in the sail at the bottom of the wind range is hard. Check the bridle knots that adjust the nose tilt. Tilt forward to hold more wind when it's light. Tilt back in higher wind to let it pass over the kite. My Hydra and vented Mind Trick have 2 adjusting knots. Zephyr 3 but you can go 1 more. Pro Dancer 4 and Widow Maker Pro 6. Jewel 1 and didn't need anymore. Popping hard in low winds usually pulls the wind out of the sail. When in low winds again try sweeping your arms back while walking backwards as quick as you can. Slow smooth moves mostly but sometimes pops are needed. It's pretty mechanical at first. Keep at it and pretty soon your own rhythm will start to develop. Don't want to brag or rub your nose in it to much but I only had 97 turns in my lines 1st time. Only had to do the walk of contemplation to the kite 28 times. Maybe it was worse though and I'm just trying to feel good about myself LOL. Trying to fly a standard in UL or SUL winds is tough. Make double sure you do your knots right when adjusting your line length. First couple times I was like hey no sweat. 3rd time in 15 or so winds 1 knot slipped. Line shot out like a rubber band twisting and snarling as it went. Took an hour before I was back in the air. Any day there's no damage is a good day. Even for the pros I think. It gets better. A LOT better. Only got to fly for a little over 2 hours in UL winds today. Small repair job will be done in the morning sigh.

[khsidekick]

Most of the time the twists are false twists. Meaning the lines twist 20 times one way and then 20 times the other. I always stake my handles then hook up the kite without untangling the lines. Seemed strange to me at first after untangling lines for way to many years. After the kite is hooked up pull the lines light against the stake and spread the lines apart. Most of the wraps will undo themselves and the few that are left at the handle ends will usually come out easily flying the kite in circles. You can check the direction of wraps on your way back to the kite to know what way to fly it to untangle them. I usually just fly it up and spin it a few times one way to see if the lines are twisting more or less. If need be spin the kite in the opposite direction. With quad lines on occasion I have to feed one handle thru the center of the other because I wasn’t careful when I put them away. One other thing that seems to help is to keep tension against the stake wind winding them up.


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[John Barresi]

There is only ONE way to literally add 25+ wraps to your lines while winding or unwinding... If indeed they are real wraps (not false as described above), then you likely wound onto one edge of the winder and unwound off the offer edge - literally the only way to make that many real twists without flying the kite.

Oh, possible but very unlikely and not generally more than 10 wraps or so, if you let the two ends bounce around each other in the wind.

[riffclown]

2 hours ago, prighello said:

The other thing I need to figure out is the winding of the lines. I took a break and wound the lines up on the winder. I was pretty careful about how I did it but when I went to unwind boy oh boy did I have a tangled mess. The lines were wrapped around one another for maybe a 100 turns. I spent 30 minutes getting it all sorted out. There must be a "correct" way to do this that I missed.

The Trick is simply this.. unwind the same way you wind.. if you always grasp the winder in one hand and wind keeping a constant tension, EVERYTHING on the winder will be consistent. To undo your line simply reverse your process. Whether you use figure 8 or simply wrap around is irrelevant. Make sure the lines are consistently tensioned as you wind and you'll almost never have an issue..

@John Barresi line management video is spot on.

[Kansas Flier]

2 hours ago, prighello said:

This was fun, I like speed, pull, and noise.

Yeah, Speed, pull and noise is good kiting. You'll be looking for winds in the 8-12 range, or in the upper half of the recommended wind range of the kite. I found it easier to learn when there was enough wind that I didn't have to work to keep the kite in the air. Low wind flying is a skill in itself. Tails are pretty cool. 

2 hours ago, prighello said:

But hey I didn't break anything today so all is well

Good day indeed. I don't own a Hypnotist, but I think it comes with the leading edges broken down. You don't have to break them down every time you use the kite. I would recommend leaving them assembled and just leave it sticking out of the bag.  

[makatakam]

Choose your wind to fly in so you can fly the kite easily. Until you become very familiar with it, low wind flying will be very difficult and you don't gain any muscle memory because you are not repeating inputs consistently. Half of the control you need is learned through repetition. You have to repeat the moves for them to become muscle memory. I know how strong the urge to fly can be, but you are teaching your muscles something new and different each time if it's not consistent. It's a lot of wash, rinse, repeat.

[SHBKF]

The "just starting out" topics are definitely my favorite on the forum.  You get to meet a new flier & maybe hear some different questions.  I always anticipate the the insightful answers usually mixed with a little humor.  The sincere kindness is consistently very apparent.  I also likely learn new things from the experienced fliers & from the new flier.  It is so refreshing inspiring me to look forward to the next time on the field.  I noticed I had "liked" more than half of the responses already so I went back & "liked" all twenty-two posts for good measure. Guess I am just getting soft in my old age. But after all I have always thought it was best to get better, not bitter, as growing older.

Keep em in the air, SHBKF 

Me in the gold shirt telling an observer about flying Stuart's Invictus

[John Barresi]

Agreed @SHBKF, there is an easily underestimated power in fresh eyes and the enthusiasm that comes with them. 🙏