Lioko27 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Detox was one of the rings I've noticed, I have only 2 guidelines, the scope of wind and the price, I m sorry, but detox would have to buy 3 models, std, semi end vented. When another producer covers range 5 - 32km/h one model. As for the price, in my country, the euro c is 4x1... will decide to make one model with a wider wind range. Although I do not hide that detox (extra) will definitely be in my bag at a later date. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perigonza Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 35 minutes ago, Lioko27 said: Detox was one of the rings I've noticed, I have only 2 guidelines, the scope of wind and the price, I m sorry, but detox would have to buy 3 models, std, semi end vented. When another producer covers range 5 - 32km/h one model. As for the price, in my country, the euro c is 4x1... will decide to make one model with a wider wind range. Although I do not hide that detox (extra) will definitely be in my bag at a later date. I fully understand, ecconomy is difficult. But don't let the windrange defeat you, no kite covers all windrange and as I said before, Detox is a toolbox for competitive kitefliers, that means that we offer plenty of options to fine tune the kite to the wind when maximum perfromance is needed. It is impossible to do with just one or two versions, we will actually be offering 6 versions by the end of the year. Does that mean that you need all? sure not, that means that you have plenty of choices to adjust your set to your needs. And then, price is always relative. Quality materials and quality whorkmanship are expensive but then you get a kite that will last you the rest of your life as long as you care for it ... with cheap quality you have to change after one or two seasons ... in the long run you end up saving (I am not talking just about our kites but all quality manufacturers like Buzz and some others that still make their kites by themselves one by one and with love and passion...) In the words of Stephen Versteegh: " you can skip kites, STD and Vented will cover also the the wind from 1.5 -5 bft, only when you want to push performance than you need more kites. Than you want the perfect kite for every wind. " Hope to have clarified a bit Pedro Los Hermanos 4line Kites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Searching for the "Unicorn"....! As was said - no single kite does it all - unless you like being yanked around in strong winds, or sitting during the light winds. As the quote above stated - you can get by with 2 - a standard full sail and a fully vented kite. Interchangeable frames helps too, if they are different weights or flexes. Then you can put either frame in either kite to increase range. This combo will give you a pretty good chance of covering the most wind ranges you might encounter. It will however still leave the extremes, again to be pulled around or sitting and watching. As for the Unicorn - still looking..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Thank you for the explanation, I know that you cannot be one of the foreigners to cover all the wind scopes... and the creation is rather recreational rather than the exact... but as you mentioned the quality of the quality. I know that you can increase or reduce the wind scope of the model through the exchange for the right frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 If you like flying quad kites and don't lose interest, you will soon have more kites than you need. But you will have what you need to fly in any wind. Don't worry about it. It will just happen. I have 14 Rev-style quad kites, 5 sets of handles, at least 7 line sets in various length and strength, 4 extra frames, and a $200 bag to hold it all. I don't have very many kites, compared to others. Just enough to make sure that when I get to the field, no matter what the conditions are, I can fly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 To be clear - I am a team flier with Phoenix kites. Our team has 5 different models to choose from (and some of us have 6). If you use FaceBook - look for the page Quad Squad North West to see us and our kites. Made by Bazzer Poulter, one of the members of Team iQuad, since disbanded, He and John worked to make the Revolution "B" pro series as good as they could. Since establishing his own brand, Phoenix, he was able to make further changes to the design. We've flown them in just about all wind ranges, but we have the correct models to do that too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 I looked at 😂, great filmmaker. But I have to consider more models available in Eu. Taxes and duty are large... 😠. as far as the revolution and detox are left for the moment...... Little choice 😫😫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Add to that: Swiss Made by Andi Kites Polo kites 4 Wind Drive kites Orao Kites - new All these kites are in the Quad Lines Kite Group, found on FaceBook. Might need to scroll or search, but they are there. I believe all are European makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Revopolo = polokites 4wd = 4 wind driver. Orao, I've got their dual line kite, but four quad kite links of the 10 Km/h. And that's the way I ve got it. Last time I have to check... Thank you, 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 One of my "pet peeves' - manufacturer's listed wind ranges. Who sets them? I've found that in general, you can up the low and drop the high on most all kite packaging. The "average" flier isn't going to get the same performance from a product, as say an expert. Can some "pro" get it to fly in no wind? Can a "pro" handle it in screaming winds? A lot better than the weekend warrior or occasional flier. Read all the numbers, but remember those are estimates, not set in stone. Otherwise you might come away from the flying field disappointed ..... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Yes, I know that the ranges are estimated by changing the frame to increase or reduce them. But the wind scopes have another sense - the reduction of fatigue of material. increase the amount of panels, their differences, their size and imposition or the percentage of the relevant surface to the surface of the sail. If a reduction in the scope is not a higher increase, it may result in a faster consumption or even the damage, and I know there is no flying latader for every wind condition, I know I'm gonna need some different kinds of different things. But I M only looking at recreational, so I'm looking for the most universal model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 are taxes and tariffs the same on "unfinished goods" as a final product? You could have the leading edge assembled (onto the sail) in Poland, buy the sail from Australia and the leading edge from the USA, Eliot Shook (Andy's "A-holes" instead of screening and patches placed at the folds and center of LE. You could even specify an SUL nylon (1.5 oz) leading edge sleeve instead of Dacron (3.9 oz) Two kites: a full sail (or an SUL, I recommend the Phoenix Ash by BAZZer) and a fully vented sail (or a "Shook 75%" = almost two kites worth of wind range, but NOT twice that full price!) You'll need flying line and handles regardless of which wing you choose and the choices are personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 The duty and the tax depends on the prices and the Group of goods, so the differences are not divested in the case of the various elements from different suppliers, the additional costs of transport, links and manoeuvres, are available at home, at a given moment the only kites available in the country is a revolution (most older models), hq, Orao, Elliot and spiderkites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Are you saying that 4WD or Polo don't have any presence in your country? Or that they are unavailable? Not even online? Los Hermanos should be online too. I think they just changed their web address, let me see if I can find it. Try this : www.esste.com Should take you to their new site for the Detox. Another possible source online : http://kites.aerialis.no/back-online/?fbclid=IwAR3QQX4RYNxV0ADZjYQPrPujS3ZqVxfFIZJeHxGc_xtyUWi8p9VqMmxMIIE not sure where exactly this goes, but should get you to the right place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Detox is already on the list and is, yes, and it is not available in Poland, but it is not available in Poland, which is to be able to add vat and the duty... and after the calculation of a lot cheaper, even though I wrote a fly of revolution, as I have been treating a hobby, but I want a corporal model, with a good way, with good opinion and parameters to make me happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Choices do seem limited over there, I guess. I would still recommend getting 2 sails, something full sail and something vented. Preferably the same company, so frames can interchange between the 2. That will get you the most wind range coverage. Get the full sail first, but plan on getting the vented reasonably soon. If you fly that full sail in too much wind, that sail will stretch, no matter who makes it or what material it is made from. The same handles, lines, can be used for both, you might save some by getting the second one as "kite only"? It will be kite, frame, and bag - nothing else. Wish you luck on your search .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perigonza Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said: Are you saying that 4WD or Polo don't have any presence in your country? Or that they are unavailable? Not even online? Los Hermanos should be online too. I think they just changed their web address, let me see if I can find it. Try this : www.esste.com Should take you to their new site for the Detox. Another possible source online : http://kites.aerialis.no/back-online/?fbclid=IwAR3QQX4RYNxV0ADZjYQPrPujS3ZqVxfFIZJeHxGc_xtyUWi8p9VqMmxMIIE not sure where exactly this goes, but should get you to the right place. I don't know the others but Detox (and all our products) are available WORLDWIDE with FREE SHIPPING, that is, price is final shipped to you wherever you live in the world so shipping cost shouldn't be an isue with us. As for tax, Poland is a EU member so we are oblied to add it to the price, but if you have a valid VAT company number you can have tax expemption (maybe a friend or relative ...) so tax shouldn't be a problem either ... And that is completelly legal. All you have to do is introduce the VAT during check-out and our site is ready to connect with the EU VAT database and make any adjusments to the price, easy as that. Then maybe you find the price to high even with all that, we understand that but if you look at the final prices we have taken them down quite a bit from las model and believe me, there is a lot of hand work (no east mass factory but handcraft work) involved on making those kites to the level of excellence they have. Hope that helps, Pedro Los Hermanos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Pedro. I know that your experience, your handwriting and innovation must be appreciated. I understand why your kites cost so much if it's not the euro for the Euro I could order 3 models, and I can afford 1 vat to be about 90 euros. And the kite of revolution in my country in my country have less than 400 euros of vat. I also understand why you did so many detox options. But as one of those who only treat kites are already treating recreationally to buy two models and a few frameworks. As for the quality of the enforcement of the higher accuracy, the latter is sufficient to do more than 10 years of model which has only 1 flaw, the redacted material. For that I'm going to buy a new one. https://kite4fun.pl/revolution-1-5-reflex-rx,3,1006,27334 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 We did discuss collectively how the Quad landscape was changing. The Hadzicki wing and it's derivatives truly changed the landscape of recreational and competition sport kite flying. https://kitelife.com/forum/topic/7389-4-lines-your-choices/ Innovations like Magnetic points, Panel count, LEading Edge enhancements, Springs, Spars and shape variances all come into play with not only the companies mentioned here but the various builders that have ventured into the field as well. There is no single one answer for everyone. I've seen vented sails with velcro covers to make it a full sail and other innovations that change the way a sail flies. I've even done a few innovations of my own. Does it make a kite better? That question can only be answered by the flier. What works for one person may be completely unusable to another. The point I'm trying to make is there are many advances since the patent ran out allowing competition for the the Hadzicki wing and variants to drive advancements that were not possible a few short years ago. Find what works for you and use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted November 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 30.10.2019 at 23:47, riffclown said: Znajdź to, co działa dla Ciebie i użyj go. Very interesting statement. But the last statement is almost impossible to make. I need to test each of the models produced by different manufacturers. Apart from the purchase, customs and VAT costs it would take a while :) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Most of us use the technique of flying other people's Kites (also known as OPK). I do realize that could be a challenge when separated from other fliers by distance/borders or other impediments.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, riffclown said: Most of us use the technique of flying other people's Kites (also known as OPK). I do realize that could be a challenge when separated from other fliers by distance/borders or other impediments.. I only get this opportunity once or twice a year, but... this year I got the chance to fly a Shook 135 in some 20-25mph wind. What a TREAT ! It also sold me on the fact that I need one of those. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breezin Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Addict Kite Magazine has a cool interview(11/18/2019) with JB about the Djinn. My Flexifoil Psycho was made in Poland. To bad they're out of production. Kites a blast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioko27 Posted November 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 In Poland, I am limited to the availability of the kite producers. Or revolution or hq. Ordering from the Usa or China because of the duty and vat can increase costs by 30%. And I have to remember the exchange rate (ca x4). There was one of the lawmen's construct but he was in business... 😠 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Clay Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 I only get this opportunity once or twice a year, but... this year I got the chance to fly a Shook 135 in some 20-25mph wind. What a TREAT ! It also sold me on the fact that I need one of those. Glad I could introduce you to the world of Shook Meshes Rob! I just ordered a 40% to round out my collection Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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