frob

I picked up a Kaiju in March, and an indoor rev later in the year. Over the past six months I've slowly built stamina for indoor flight, but still encounter a bit of dizziness or vertigo. My collection of maneuvers is still relatively small, and 360s (or 180s) are my easiest way to recover and land when trying something new. I know in indoor performances (in person and in video) the performers do relatively few 360s, more frequently walking zig-zag patterns before turning 180. Also common is slowly covering the entire gym as a large square rather than walking backwards around the center court circle. Those will require increasing my pool of tricks, but that's my goal. The tip of thinking about the gym as compass points has helped, both for orientation and for dizziness. My available floor is little more than a basketball court, nearly mirrored north/south and east/west, so keeping compass points in mind helps with orientation. But even trying those, after about two minutes of indoor flying and a half dozen spins, I need to stop, land, and hold steady for a moment. It takes one or two seconds for the walls to stop moving from vertigo, then I can continue. Any other ideas to help with the spinning?

It is normal. All parts will break eventually from use and abuse. They break most often when you are starting out and are crashing frequently. They break less often when are skilled and are cautious with your equipment. Most damage come from crashes, hard non-crash landings, and from dragging along the ground. Sometimes parts will be destroyed on impact. Sometimes they will be damaged but won't completely break until placed under stress. Parts can also break under the stress of high winds, but for beginners that is less common than impact or snag damage. Several companies (including HQ) sell the rods, clips, and other necessary parts to repair the kite. It may take some labor to cut rods to the proper length and securely attach them, or they may have an exact replacement part. Sometimes the kite vendors will send a no-cost replacement part for a newly-purchased kite. Contact them and ask. Otherwise shop around, there are many stores that sell parts for a range of prices.

There used to be a brand of kite line called "spider line", it was blue, made from the same stuff as today's Dyneema and Spectra names. I've still got a bit of it on a winder. I think if I knew there were spiders out ballooning, I'd call that as a good day to fly indoors.

It wasn't me being a wimp that prevented me from properly attaching it. I met up with John and found out the knots were tied slightly too close making them nearly impossible to come together. Moving the knots about 1/8" made the kite come together neatly.

Gentler, certainly, but that's not a bad thing. Kites can have high pull and fast speeds that are beyond beginner's skill, that doesn't mean people with intermediate and expert skills will ONLY fly those kites. Not every kite day needs to be an upper-body workout. A lazy day flying kites means flying gentler kites. A kite can be beginner-friendly can can also be fun to fly.

If you are considering quad line kites, the skill sets are mostly distinct. You can learn to fly a quad without learning to fly dual, and you can learn to fly a dual without learning a quad. Quad line kites are generally slower and deliberate, far more precise with the ability to slow, stop, and reverse. Dual line kites have more options including kites with high power or force if you like a workout, kites with extreme speed, and kites capable of amazing acrobatic tricks. Some skills are transferable like understanding the wind window or understanding how air turbulence affects flight, but mostly you can learn either one in about the same time frame. With the help of an experienced pilot that can give immediate feedback you can learn basic control in an hour or two. Without an experienced guide you will need experimentation and instructional videos and it will take longer.

I started thinking about making the six-hour drive from Austin, then remembered I've already got a scheduled kite flying on Saturday. That's a first. I hope the octopuses / octopodes survive with all their limbs, this weekend's weather is forecast to be rather active.

There are plenty more things you can learn. For strong winds you learn the cost of spars after they break, how to patch a torn sail, and how to cut down a snapped line into short lines. You also learn the "fire drill" maneuver to rush to the edge of the wind window in heavy gusts, and the importance of stretch strips sewn into the kite fabric to slow down the eventual wear. For light/variable winds you can learn patience, learn how to read the tells of an incoming wind by watching the distance, and get the exercise of the "walk of shame" out to the kite as it repeatedly falls (or learn about "magic sticks").

Yes, the one I have is exactly that. Half as long, plus a ferrule. Put two together and it is the length of a regular spar. When making a set I suspect they take a regular set of six spars (one spare), run them across a very narrow saw precisely down the center, then add six ferrules. None of the spars are double-ferrule like the center spar typically is, only one ferrule per piece.

Exciting. Then we can get another vote on if they're really tight, or if I'm just a weakling.

It was mentioned in this thread a week ago. Both the Kymera and Hydra are on discount for $112.50, half their regular price. It looks like the price dropped at the start of summer.

Okay then, I'll de-tune the whiskers for maximum raspberries to the crowd.

Thanks, I didn't understand the purpose of a leech line until today.

Yeah, I've spent the past few years flying quads almost exclusively, even though I started on dual line kites as a kid in the '80s before putting down the hobby for nearly two decades. When I stopped flying the Rev was still fairly new and way outside my price range with a job mowing lawns. When I came back to the sport about five years ago it looked radically different. Anyway, looking over my kite logs for 2018 gives me this: 29 days flying outdoor quad (and thinking about buying an indoor quad...) 15 days flying indoor dual 3 days flying outdoor dual (not counting today) On that note, I just came home from flying and had the numbers open from updating my log. I spent a half hour reminding myself how to fly an outdoor dual line on my Eruption because I'd rather break that than my new kites, then another 90 minutes or so breaking in the Kymera. I'll likely start on the Hydra next week. I'm not sure if the wind was too strong for the Kymera or I just never found the right adjustments. It kept making trailing edge buzzing ("kite farts") through most of the wind window so I kept adjusting tensions throughout the afternoon. Windfinder reports the wind was about 8G14 which matches the nearby airport's wind report that averaged 9, 7, then 9 knots over that time frame. With slight adjustments to the standoffs I reduced the buzzing, but never really eliminated it. I really don't want to stretch out or ruin the trailing edge of a brand new kite before it's really broken in. Does someone who knows the Kymera well (ahem, like @John Barresi ) know if that's too strong for that kite, or if it just needs more tuning love? The strongest gusts were probably near the upper end of the kite's listed wind range but I didn't feel like it was overpowering the kite.

Thanks. It does fit together, juse takes more tension than I'm used to. My concern is more about sail stretch. You can't unstretch the fabric nor lengthen spars or standoffs. With two votes saying it feels designed to be stretched tight, I'm less worried.

Picked up the Hydra and Kymera, that's a great price. (Thanks for pointing out the Into the Wind promotional discount in the other discussion). On my first assembly and inspection, the Kymera feels fine but the Hydra sail feels extremely tight. I couldn't lock the loop around the wingtip nock from the tension, it didn't feel safe to do more than put it through the loop and hook the loop over the nock rather than pull it through to the knot. The first side's standoffs were tight, but I needed to balance out the sail material to put the second set of standoffs in. The tension is greater than any other kite I own, even the indoors that were my former tightest kites. I can still assemble the kite, but there's not a single storage-wrinkle left in the sail. I double-checked that none of the fittings were only partially installed, everything seemed proper just very tight. Is that much sail tension normal for the Hydra? I'm concerned if setting up is enough to stretch out the sail, or if this is typical for the first few flights.

This is why quality line sets are important. If you're using cheap cotton line you might be limited to four or five twists before the line starts to bind and becomes impossible to fly around seven or eight twists. Cheap nylon lines might get you an additional twist or two, but still bind up tight by ten twists. High quality line is expensive, but it can twist ten or fifteen times before it begins to bind and become difficult, and 20+ twists before it is a serious problem. Cotton or nylon dual-line sets are $5, quality synthetic lines are $50+ for dual line, $100+ for quad line.

I've been watching both Hydra and Kymera prices, waiting for some spare cash to hopefully pick up both before they bump it up. The two are very similar in specs, how differently do they handle?

Hurricanes mean business. Agreed with the plea to stay safe. And for those who choose not to stay safe: Now is the time to try a frame-only kite. Just be sure when you catch the kite mid-air, it's because the kite came to you rather than you going to it.

First a preface that those are all reliable kites from established brands. They're all good in that regard. They're the same class of kites. All of the kites you mentioned are parafoil speed kites. "Para" with its roots the same as parachute, the kites have no spars. "Foil" referring to the airfoil shape, similar to an airplane wing with internal cells. There are several sub-classes of parafoil kites. Those are speed kites, the bridle lines on the kite put the kite at an angle to make the kites move quickly, even in relatively light wind. You are right that these kites feel twitchy, that's because they are speed kites. Among the other sub-classes of parafoils, one popular style is traction kite or power kites which can have enough pull for buggies or skiing, and another popular style is lift kites or show kites that are large and stable rather than being designed for agility. The twitchy feeling is part of the style. All the parafoil speed kites move quickly and are sensitive to input. They CAN fly in a straight line, but it requires experience and skill. They are not designed to move slowly like kites designed for slackline tricks, nor move like quad line kites. Fast and nimble are intentional. Some difference, but they're similar because they're all the same class of kites. The bigger kites have a bigger sail area and generate more pull. The 1.3 is 130 cm across, relatively small. It has bigger brothers at 180 cm and 220 cm that can generate more pull. The Synapse family has similar sizes at 140 cm, 170 cm, and 200 cm. All of those sizes are still in the speed kite category. Parafoils are not usually considered power kites or traction kites until they reach about 3 meters across. (Different people use the names differently, commonly power kites are 2 line, traction kites are often four lines, but that isn't universal terminology.) Turning speed is going to be a matter of several factors. The wind speed, the kite's bridle configuration, and the pilot's body movements will all make a difference. Bigger kites tend to have more drag (slow down) due to their size, but with some experience a pilot could make a small kite turn slowly and make a large kite turn rapidly. Even so, they're all parafoil speed kites so they're going to turn fast and fly fast. The kite is marketed as a beginner kite. Parafoils are very resilliant kites because they don't have spars (no parts to break) and this one is smaller making it more gentle than it's bigger brothers. Combined this kite is easier for beginners, but that doesn't mean experienced people can't or won't fly it. If you like the parafoil style consider keeping the smaller kite in your bag and picking up a larger model. When winds are strong a large kite can be damaged or be overpowered, the smaller model with less surface area can let you have a similar flying experience. Whatever you decide to do with it personal preference is important, fly what you enjoy flying. If you live somewhere near others who fly, such as on a beach or near a kite store, consider asking about flying a variety of kites. Many people have a collection of different kites and will help you experiment a bit to find kites you enjoy. Flying other people's kites is the cheapest way to go when starting out. You'll be addicted in no time. ;-)

And if you're interested in multi-line kites, don't be afraid about quad line kites. You can learn to fly dual-line kites or quad-line kites as a complete beginner, you don't need to master one before learning the other. Quad line kites tend to be more expensive, starting around $200 for a ready-to-fly package or a little less if used. They are also much easier to learn with a mentor rather than figuring out from videos and tutorials. Finally, don't be afraid to ask people about flying their kites. If you can find someone near you who flies ask if you can fly with them sometime. The site has a map, look for active members near you. They likely have some kites that are a little more durable, and people generally enjoy sharing the hobby if you ask nicely.

What are you planning to do as you fly? Single line kites can be attached to an anchor and then mostly ignored. (That doesn't mean abandoned, they need to be supervised and occasionally adjusted if wind changes significantly.) Children like to run with smaller single line kites, but if you need to run or flail your arms that's usually a sign that something needs adjustment. Generally they're like a banner or pennant, put it up in the air and see it from afar; they're great for groups to mark where you are on the beach. If your goal is to sit on the beach, watch the waves, eat your picnic, and occasionally look up at the kite overhead, you want a single line kite. Large kites cost more money and also require better gear, such as sand anchors, and they're probably more money than you want to pay. Generally the most difficult part is adjusting the kite for the wind, often there are some knots on the bridle that can be adjusted based on your wind speed, but once it is up you're basically done. A multi-line kite (dual or quad) needs to be actively flown by a person. They are kites where the pilot must be in control at all times it is in the air. The only time you can eat your picnic lunch is when the kite is landed. It takes a little bit of skill, if someone helps you learn you can get the basics figured out in an hour or so, and enjoy flying as an activity. If you learn on your own it can take more time. With a bit of practice people can fly formations and patterns. With a bit more practice (more than one weekend) people can do mid-air tricks to make the kite flip, twirl, and otherwise behave in acrobatic ways. People who are comfortable with it can fly for many hours in a day, but it is time on your feet with some upper-body exercise. They're both good types of kites, but for different purposes. Many kite-laden beaches have both types of kites flying. Kite shows also tend to have a field of large single-line kites that are up from dawn to dusk, plus multi-line kites flown individually as long as the person wants. If you decide on a dual line kite, of the ones you listed the Beetle has the best reputation for being nigh-indestructible. Parts can still break, but the kite is durable. There are many other kites, some are lighter, some designed for tricks, some designed for group flying, some designed to be a workout, some designed to drag you down a beach. Try to have someone teach you how to fly. There are many varieties in the $50-$150 range. If you decide on a single line kite, anything over about 8 feet is going to need a solid anchor. Smaller kites can often be tied to a table or heavy chair. The easiest indicator is the type of kite line. If you've got cheap cotton line it's a small kite, you do what you need get it in the air and tie it off. If it has a rating like 100lb line, 250lb line, 500lb line, you better arrange to have something to anchor it off with plus some training about kite safety. Having a line snap with a few hundred pounds on it can be dangerous, and launching/landing can sever fingers if done wrong. Usually the small kites are cheap, you can find them in the store for a few dollars; the large kites quickly reach hundreds of dollars.

Didn't notice the lines. That's okay, I've got plenty of line sets in my bag. I knew the kite would work wonderfully in my bag. Here's hoping for the win.

Maybe it was updated, but the text looks like the retail RTF package: This package includes a VENTED sail, 3 and 4 wrap frames, adjustable handles, DVD and kite sleeve! Not my favorite colors, but it would certainly get some love. Pick me!

For a moment I thought your lines were attached to the giant panda. You should figure out how to do that next. It would make a strange but exciting quad.