Newbie Journey, Rev learning tips

[happysuperbutton]

@Paul LaMasters thank you kindly for sharing yes agreed, it's not great for the LE by sliding that way, that only happened to be the start of the clip the wife got for me haha, I am fine launching up down and inverted launch too, and turning upright from inverted at launch.

@makatakam thank you too, super appreciated pointers! Like seriously, every tiny bit any of you share or comment or critique is absolutely priceless. How else would anyone learn anything then?

I was flying with top leaders knots all out but one knot in. Barresi leaders.

I'll add another video shortly from the day of flying before we headed out to the beach, it'll be more boring to watch since it's just slower more controlled flying drills.

I actually got scared the spars would pop in that wind, 3wrap. I am seriously in love with the pull of the 1.5b in that wind though, it's enough to drag me along the sand but not enough to actually take me off the ground and into the abyss unlike real power kites would when dead on in the wind window.

Post again soon :D:D

[happysuperbutton]

I know the following question has more than likely came up many a times but I'm going round in circles with my due diligence. The "Rods" pinned topic also only discusses some labeling oddity.

I am looking to lighten up my rev for lower winds. And I wanna get a 2nd frame.

Which lighter frame would be most suggested to use? I fly with a 3wrap and clingwrap.

2 wrap or race rods or super-ultra-light? I recall my very first day with a rev happened to fly with a 4wrap and I could easily tell there's a weight difference between it and the 3wrap I now own.

So how different are 2wraps/race/sul between themselves? Why would you choose one over the other? Isn't the race stronger but same weight, so why even bother with the 2wrap and just opt for race? 

Thanks so much in advance for any suggestions or opinions.

 

[makatakam]

Again, it becomes an issue of personal preference and your flying style. Of course any lighter frame will reduce the overall weight, which allows the kite to fly in lighter wind, but the race and diamond frames have a faster response time and are therefore more suitable for a yank and spank flying style. Two wrap frame is a bit heavier and has a slower response time, making it more suitable for slow precision flying, and light uneven winds because of the additional mass. You will probably eventually end up having both in your quiver as each has its benefits in specific conditions. Which one to get before the other? Talk to the others in your area about what they use and ask why they choose that, and observe the associated flying style. Try the kites they are flying and see what's in them.

[dragonfish]

Like Mark says, it is somewhat personal preference. 2 wraps and race rods are often used by different people in the same wind conditions. The response is different on race rods. Many people like them, some can't get used to them and prefer 2 wraps. 

I'm not sure what you are referring to as sul rods. Rev has the diamond frame. There are also a variety of other rods that people have made lighter than 2 wrap frames from, e.g. Skyshark P90, P1X, etc. There may even be some newer rods that I am not familiar with. These are generally more delicate than 2 wraps. 

I have a frame I made from P90's. I don't like to use it unless the winds are so light it's basically fly or die conditions. I'm not sure how well they will work in a (mid)vented kite because I've never tried. 

[Paul LaMasters]

What is to become the prime objective,....do you want instant power on command? Then the frame needs to cup air, the more 3D the sail shape becomes to easier it is to instantly fill it with energy.  That huge curvature will limit tracking.  The kite will want to turn within it's wing-tips, I will not automatically follow a straight line (Tracking).

A stiffer frame works just the opposite. It will ride a set of railroad tracks following your predetermined flight path, but it won't fly away after a huge dose of slack (all by itself) either.

How fast it returns from deflection to straight again after bending is another issue to consider.  P-90s bend like a long bow from Ole' England's sherwood forest, whereas a Diamond/Blk Race frame snaps back like a crossbow..  The difference in price for this level of performance is about 300 to 500%

Hybrid framing is an effort to keep both objectives.  where does your kite bend when commanded hard?  Hybrid are easier to consider as a travel frame, then you can place the stiffness more to your personal preferences.

What are others in your quad community using as a frame?  Team flying is easier if everyone is kind of "on the same page".  

If you take a flexible frame and "Travelize" it you'll notice it has become both heavier and stiffer.  So a 3 wrap frame will perform more like a 4.

Bridle? A stock bridle bends in the center, the French Bridle bends on the outer 3rds instead.

[makatakam]

Yup, so all we're saying is that once you get past the crash and burn stage of quad flying you will need to begin experimenting to better understand what will suit your style as well as the conditions at the time. This is a different journey for everyone. What floats your boat will sink the other guy's.

Other flyers are out there so you can try their set-up to get an idea of what works for you. Flying OPKs keeps the cost down to reasonable, although eventually you will probably have at least one of everything so that you are ready when the situation arises. It's all about what puts the smile on YOUR face.

Most pilots will develop a preference toward a specialty and will gear up for that. For instance, my addiction is very low wind, but I don't like indoor very much. I know how and have the equipment for indoor, but I would rather fly low wind or near zero outdoors, so very much of my equipment is geared towards that.

[happysuperbutton]

Thanks you guys for sharing, really priceless and appreciate your time sharing.

I did more Googling on the rods.. taking into consideration what you guys shared too, I think my mind is eyeing the RRs now. Just a matter of seeing if I have the chance to try them out first, and also deciding between black or green RRs before committing. 

I still don't think I'll ever fly competitive or team fly, but I do and will want to fly with other pilots some day, play and fun in the sky. Getting 120lines too.

Thanks again for the advice!

I found this Rev video, it's the video with the most revs flying together I have ever seen yet...can't imagine actually being there, what fun!!

We need more moments like above. It should be an everyday occurrence. Means we need more revs in the world. Let's do it.

Why the **@# not.

[John Barresi]

The most kites?

 

[ACrop]

Come on John...I am waiting for you to lead the charge on a new record megafly....with enough forwarding that I can make it to fly. Please?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using KiteLife mobile app

[John Barresi]

2019, WSIKF, pretty sure.

[Exult]

On 8/21/2017 at 0:22 PM, Paul LaMasters said:

When you launched the kite at the very beginning you "dragged the leading edge diagonally" from an inverted position.  That is two string move and NOT what you are after at all with a quad!  That's abrasion on your leading edge sleeve and wear on the bridle loops, even the end-caps!  Remember, this kite design is all about one word, control.

The wind is[1], the kite(s) is/are, the line/lines is/are, you are[2], the ground is there[3]. The flying however is whatever amuses you - a clear matter of preference! No matter if I turn every stone upside down or look behind every leave in the nature around my kiting fields I'll not find a note containing an approved set of moves ... and it is a good thing which adds to the value[4] of kiting for me. I like the explorer attitude in http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/720-quad-tricks-i-think-i-created/ , though I'm not in a position to determine if the discovered tricks were originally discovered (but don't see that as the most important part, but rather the spirit). If/when I get the QLK axel going the  Korvokites'[5] (not HQ) freestyle QLK Mosquito QLK could be something to try out. Kiting unlimited ... or at least in a wide sense!

1. As you know sometimes 0m/s is a good approximation of wind speed, however the molecular mean thermal velocity in air is about 464m/s, which you typically don't observe directly ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_velocity ).
2. Singular or plural 
3. In most cases, but not always, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trk0KAe8y8Q
4. What is the minimum sum required for you not to ever fly (and make) kites again? Yes, this is a repulsive question.
5. Though a German based site, the web site is also available in English.

A week ago I managed to do long ground slides (because I liked it, not required for launching), just like a slow DLK LE launch with a delayed or omitted take off. This was on a reasonably dense and well cut lawn, so the abrasion should be minimal. My B-series 1.5 std bridle do show signs of wear, but I suspect that that is from a kite grinding and eating greedy stone beach that effectively adds a fee to your kiting. None the less I consider to protect the bridle (closest to the end caps) by covering the end caps with heat shrink tubing, which should be lighter than vinyl end caps. I.e. effectively move the bridle attach point inward be about 2cm to a less exposed position. Perhaps quicker to cover the most exposed part with tape instead?

Worn bridle closest to the end cap.

Another idea, when replacing the bridle, at the points of wear, why not add extra sleeving as used for kite lines (or a thin plastic (polyurethane?) tubing stub around the exposed part of the bridle as an extra resistant sleeving)?  Yet another idea, if there is any risk of cracking the end cap through tip stabbing, perhaps one could attach a rubber plate under the heat shrink tubing covering the outmost part of the end cap?

To handle the wear on the LE I also consider to attach a strip of sacrificial black rip stop tape on the front side of the LE. Another more impressive way to handle the wear and tear would be to try to mimic a ground slide leaving some minimal distance of air between the ground and kite, but that would really require impressive skills for a perfect illusion.

On 8/21/2017 at 5:39 PM, makatakam said:

Don't obsess over learning the bicycle spin. It will just "click" eventually like the inverted hover did. Let it develop without pushing it too hard.

I believe in learning tricks/moves/combos approaching them from bottom up/top down/sideways/parallel/slow/quick (you always learn something and often about possible ways which the kite can move), but above all do try frequently. I agree there are ways that are more straight on to the trick/move, but it can't be of any harm (which also never was really stated in the above quote) doing a couple quick bicycles moves. This should quickly reveal any weaknesses in the rotation and also you get started now and don't need to wait for the perfect clockwork before starting the bicycle learning process. One typically aim for not to think about the hand movements, but instead focus on the detailed and at the same time over all kite movements. To some times at least try working from top down some times is not wrong IMO. Also I can see value in beginner time on the lines where one figures out what can be found in the "landscape" before homing in to the standard moves.

On 7/25/2017 at 7:29 PM, happysuperbutton said:

I also am starting to realize I love flying my rev fast. Slow and controlled looks amazing and definitely shows a lot more mastership of the kite, however I find the most excitement flying the rev as fast as possible. The faster and nearer to the ground I can get, the more the adrenaline rush 

I also try to mix slow and (to the best of my abilities) quick to be able to express a wider repertoire (argg, trying to convey things like this always sounds so deep). If one enjoys the quick but yet demanding control, QLKs (including the Super Sonic) are not the only answer - DLKs are available for this as well.

[JWharton]

2019, WSIKF, pretty sure. [emoji6]

Maybe just maybe I need to start saving[emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G903F using KiteLife mobile app

[happysuperbutton]

Ack... Wind season be dying.  while I am still managing airtime with the rev, the adrenaline rush is different too without the forceful pull of the wind in the sail. Tried heading out all the way out to the coast and also no luck with any wind. I've learnt that it's still possible to fly revs in little to wind but it's just a different adventure doing so. Maybe it's time back to RC... (Eew! I've lost my heart to Revs  and you all here at Kitelife)

[DavidB]

Fear not - we still have another 2 or 3 months of good winds in the Bay Area. This weekend was surprisingly light, but still good enough at Shoreline to fly my UL (ok dual line and not rev, but still...).


Sent from my iPad using KiteLife mobile app

[makatakam]

4 hours ago, happysuperbutton said:

Ack... Wind season be dying.  while I am still managing airtime with the rev, the adrenaline rush is different too without the forceful pull of the wind in the sail. Tried heading out all the way out to the coast and also no luck with any wind. I've learnt that it's still possible to fly revs in little to wind but it's just a different adventure doing so. Maybe it's time back to RC... (Eew! I've lost my heart to Revs  and you all here at Kitelife)

Go fly the RC, but take a kite or two with you when you go. Then if the wind is too much for the RC......so if you have your bases covered, you can't be disappointed. 

[happysuperbutton]

8 hours ago, makatakam said:

Go fly the RC, but take a kite or two with you when you go. Then if the wind is too much for the RC......so if you have your bases covered, you can't be disappointed. 

Happen to mention and think more about going back to RC today after a good evening revving with Fred at local kite lot (ya we had fairly good winds) ... Ew, thinking of having to deal with batteries and not overflying them, maybe not, Revs really got the better of me now.  Hahaha. I'll find a way to stick it out with the winds as long as I can. 

And when I find something new, I try to sway as many friends and people around me to join in too.. more Revs!!!

[John Barresi]

A little more skill, and you can fly in prettt much anything - we really need some proper time together.

[happysuperbutton]

On 8/29/2017 at 2:22 PM, John Barresi said:

A little more skill, and you can fly in prettt much anything - we really need some proper time together.

Wouldn't that be just awesome  maybe we folks in the Bay area could arrange something together to have you down here for a day or two while there's still good winds, I'm sure all will benefit!

Had a good evening surprisingly yesterday again, I'm totally humbled by my greeness and thinking I know the seasons, guess I was too fast to think the winds were dying off in my previous replies. I had to take off my seran wrap to fly 

Got some more flight practice logs to edit and share real soon. I attempted the bicycle basics yesterday, as well as more practice into my inverted hover I struggled SO hard with...and in the video you'll see how it all went... Hahaha.

Post again soon, thanks so much for the continued support everyone.

 

P.S.

Gotta admit, a part to me feels terribad for the folks and Kitelifers in the neighbor neighboring state of Texas and all they've gone through and still going through...here I am having a swell time in the sky... :l if I could I would help. Stay strong and God bless.

[makatakam]

On 8/29/2017 at 1:11 AM, happysuperbutton said:

Ew, thinking of having to deal with batteries and not overflying them, maybe not, Revs really got the better of me now

I really appreciate not having to change the batteries every 12 minutes when I'm flying the Rev. Although I do enjoy my RC flying as well, I prefer as little wind as possible with the RC quadcopter.

As far as your inverted hover goes, fly to the top, turn it over and fly towards the ground as slowly as possible. Repeat 100 times, trying to go slower each time, once to the left, next to the right. After 100 repetitions you should be able to stop in a hover on the way and hold it steady. Seriously! Try it.

[happysuperbutton]

2 hours ago, makatakam said:

I really appreciate not having to change the batteries every 12 minutes when I'm flying the Rev. Although I do enjoy my RC flying as well, I prefer as little wind as possible with the RC quadcopter.

As far as your inverted hover goes, fly to the top, turn it over and fly towards the ground as slowly as possible. Repeat 100 times, trying to go slower each time, once to the left, next to the right. After 100 repetitions you should be able to stop in a hover on the way and hold it steady. Seriously! Try it.

Yah all that with RC, still a blast flying rc though.. just .. not "worth" the hassle at this point in time, maybe better in the fall and winter when the cold helps cool the battery and escs again.

I can kind of manage a divestop, and semi inverted control that doesn't slam the rev into the dirt...hover is the keyword here, can't keep it where I want it while inverted, I'm only accomplishing it by working with what the wind dictates instead of me.. but getting the hang of it better now..slowly. 

[Paul LaMasters]

Add more "DOWN"(reverse) into the handle tuning on the leaders, that will saddle that wild beast and you can ride it comfortably.  When in doubt, always add down 1st and see if flight dynamics have improved.  You'll be amazed adding down fills the sail with power. It doesn't give free forward motion though, you gotta' want it to make it go!

Properly equalized lines?, the kite should "balance" on one of your fingers in each hand, (stationary hover) just a slight flick is all it takes to initiate forward or reverse flight from there.  

Find and properly position your balance point for personal comfort. For some that is the thumb on top of the handle, for others? Dennis Smith doesn't use either thumb at all.  Some squeeze their grips for control of the brakes and some flick their thumbs forward instead.  

There's no one correct answer, ultimately you have to control your speed and maintain your direction, just like driving on a multi-lane superhighway.  It doesn't matter how your car is tuned as long as you can do your positioning.  It could be super responsive like a sports car or all trucky like a school bus.  Stay in your lane and don't tailgate the guy in front of you or drive like an old foogie who should have taken a cab to ever get there!

[makatakam]

12 hours ago, happysuperbutton said:

I can kind of manage a divestop, and semi inverted control that doesn't slam the rev into the dirt...hover is the keyword here, can't keep it where I want it while inverted, I'm only accomplishing it by working with what the wind dictates instead of me.. but getting the hang of it better now..slowly.

100 repetitions of flying toward the ground from the top of the window as slowly as possible and you will own your hover. Trust me. You just have to want to.

[ACrop]

Low wind flying gets to be a lot more fun when you figure out how to regain ground without landing. The forward inverted glide/ float is essential and worth working on. I had a really hard time with it until I tried moving forward faster.

Also axels are a trick best learned in low wind and trying them tended to move me forward. Short lines are best so you don't have to walk so far to reset failures. [emoji6]

Sent from my Nexus 5X using KiteLife mobile app

[happysuperbutton]

Really just wanted to give a shout-out to Steve and Fred (BASKL) for mentoring me, as well as everyone here that chimed in the last few pages of the thread! (Hi "S" & "F" I know you read here hahaha)

I was lucky to meet Steve and Fred the very first day I walked out to the field to maiden my first ever rev just two months ago. Introduced myself to them and they've been ever so willing to help teach me to fly since.

I've now gotten my first experience flying in line with them, chasing them in holding patterns and crossing lines, what. A. Rush. We even did 'Ball' which has been something I wanted to do since before getting my rev hahaha.

Guarantee without a doubt I wouldn't be managing any of the flying I'm doing today if not for them two. All other learning material (videos, sharing, private message) has been amazing helpful too.

I'm still all over the place with my rev, no finesse or precision at all yet, but I am able to enjoy any kind of flying now comfortably, low wind high wind fast slow hovers turns.

Thank you! Hope to post up another video soon.. video editing sucks. 

[makatakam]

28 minutes ago, happysuperbutton said:

I'm still all over the place with my rev, no finesse or precision at all yet, but I am able to enjoy any kind of flying now comfortably, low wind high wind fast slow hovers turns.

This is the point at which the fun really begins. If you want to progress more quickly from this stage use all the brake you possibly can for any wind conditions you encounter. Each time you fly go through all the moves you know how to do very, very slowly. This is how you build muscle memory and acquire precision. If you can't do it slowly with precision, speeding up the move only magnifies every imperfection. For the same reason, it is good to practice new moves as slowly as possible to build the muscle memory required to do the move at normal speed. Without a solid foundation the structure will crumble and fall. 

Take frequent breaks when learning new stuff. It will give your muscles time to return to a neutral state, and lets your brain reset.

Don't forget to have fun. If you're not having fun, pack up and go home. Don't fly if your mind is on something else. Remember, smile and don't forget to breathe.