Newbie Journey, Rev learning tips

[makatakam]

I know this is redundant, but necessary -- more brake. On the dive stop, hit the brakes hard and take a step towards the kite at the same time. This will take the bounce out of it. Try to hold the inverted hover as long as possible. When you start losing it, turn and fly away.

[happysuperbutton]

Thanks for the tips Edmond 

That video is a from some days ago actually, took me a long time to upload it haha.

I already changed leaders to the Barresi ones, they are longer than what I had yupyup. And more knots available for tuning too. In the next videos that I will upload soon you'll notice the change hehe.

I also am starting to realize I love flying my rev fast. Slow and controlled looks amazing and definitely shows a lot more mastership of the kite, however I find the most excitement flying the rev as fast as possible. The faster and nearer to the ground I can get, the more the adrenaline rush 

To achieve that, I noticed now that I might end up prefering having a steeper leading edge, but I'm still really just experimenting at these early stages of the journey.

Not sure if this is the best way to fly or one that still allows the core basics of rev flying to be achievable. Having also figured out that a more upright sail allows for a bit simpler reverse hover control. Yes, I've been gradually moving my way up to learning inverse controls. Progress videos available but still in the cutting room. Stay tuned 

[Edmond Dragut]

fast is great but control is everything. without breaks control you will not stop the kite and hitting something at 45-50 MPH especially if is a living been will be devastating. you develop the same speed with configuration i give you the only difference is will be harder to launch with leading edge up. will require not just that arms pull you will need at the beginning a big step back in one continuous motion. you will realize how much control of the kite you have without loosing any or adrenaline rush speed you like.

better to be safe then sorry 

[makatakam]

If you like fast, start saving up to buy a Rev Supersonic. However, you will need to fly slow with the Rev you have now to really learn good control, 'cause when you get on that Supersonic you won't have time to start learning when it's in the air. Google some videos of the Supersonic in action to see what I mean.

[Paul LaMasters]

Most of the Speed series wings are all double the forward motion and backwards is significantly faster as well, when compared to a 1.5 sized platform.  Supersonic should do 50-70 mph in forward and half that speed backwards.  

WAY quicker "power-ups also, just a flick of the wrist from dead stop to supercharger kick-in with the throttle stuck on the floor

I replaced the down spars on my SS with tapered sky shark so it;s lighter in weight.  You can run a "trick-line" around the parameter of the sail so you don't snag a flying line when flick-flak tricks are desired.  This kite does them as fast as you CAN so you don't want a snagged flying line caught on the back of the sail.

[happysuperbutton]

Haha thanks you guys for the speed pointers, appreciate it as always.

Yup I've been aware of the supersonic and other 'power' revs, but I'm really content with the B already. If anything I'll ask the local flier here if I could give his SS a whirl. I like the B fast, but I think that's as fast as I'd like. I like the B for how controlled and slow it can get and how fast it can get too, it's just nice.

Haven't had as much chance this whole week to fly yet, winds been dropping now at the times I flew the past two weeks. My rev succumbs to gravity too much at that point. But I did fly for about 20mins, i think something clicked in that small time window, im getting a good hang of  inverted flight now following JB's tutorial steps. I also filmed flying with blue tape on my vents haha, and seran wrap too from another day, will get that uploaded soon too. Gravity still got the best of my rev with the vents taped up.

Starting to wonder what kite season is like after the Summer winds are gone.. back to RC paragliding and airplanes 

BKF weekend is here, how exciting for our community ! I should be dropping by for Sunday's schedule.

[makatakam]

At BKF on Sunday, say hi to the quad flyers and let them watch you fly. If they see that you are past the "crash and burn" stage, they'll be happy to let you try what they are flying if you ask. Some may even tell you to try if you seem interested in the kite they're using. Kite flyers are a friendly bunch, and we don't bite.

[Wayne Dowler]

Starting to wonder what kite season is like after the Summer winds are gone.. back to RC paragliding and airplanes 

 

That is when indoor kicks in!!! Nothing like year round flying!!!

[happysuperbutton]

Awesome day at BKF yesterday. Got to catch a few rev team flying routines, including JB's Hunting Wabbits routine, cute. Hahaha

So cool to have finally met ya John! Was a privilege and a pleasure. Really warm, extremely friendly and SO eager to help and teach and get newbies in to the hobby! Within a couple mins I found myself on JB's very own lines and B-pro. Ha. Sweet. Gave me some quick awesome pointers/corrections while flying that I'm sure is gonna boost my learning phase before he had to run off for another meet.

Only first month plugging myself into the Rev community and I've already gotten to hangout with the legendary. What an honor. Having such a warm community-backed hobby is truly something worth the time.

On the way back to the car, wife was like, why didnt you snap a quick photo together? Oops, too star-struck and fan-boying. Hahahaha. We'll meet again soon JB sir!

[John Barresi]

Great to meet you too Sam, just sorry we were so rudely interrupted - would have loved to share more with you!

Indeed, we'll meet again - PS: there are rumors of a field at Berkeley dedicated to quad team (and "level up" lessons like you) next year, right near where we were standing... Had a chat with Tom about it, and he was definitely interested in giving me the space to work with - we'll see!

[makatakam]

20 hours ago, happysuperbutton said:

Only first month plugging myself into the Rev community and I've already gotten to hangout with the legendary. What an honor. Having such a warm community-backed hobby is truly something worth the time.

Like playing basketball one-on-one with Michael Jordan, ain't it? You don't give a damn if you get shut out -- being on the court is what counts. I can just sit back and watch JB fly in person all day and not even pick up my handles. So much you can learn by just observing how it's done. Glad you had fun.

P.S. -- I told you.

[happysuperbutton]

@John Barresi all good, incredible tips in just that small window already couldn't have asked anything more! yup I'm starting to track events in the area. Noted there's a "flying seminar" to learn at coming up in August, planning to check that out too.

Cheers man! 

 

Forgot to mention, I also got the chance to fly the new RX Spider sail at the event that day.. ew. Disappointed. Even for a newbie, the way it flies is so significantly different, not in a good way either. I had my eye on that for awhile before I found my B.. 

Not sure if it's because if the springs and the way it is vented like that..but wow it was significant. Hopped over to the older vented 1.5 (non-B) next to it and holy, smooooth.

 

[dragonfish]

@happysuperbutton, glad you were able to make it to BKF. The learn to fly clinic in 2 weeks is put on by BASKL. Definitely a good event to attend if you can make it. There's no set schedule, so come when you can. I will be there. Some of the others you have met will most likely be there too. 

I noticed Rev had the RX Spider too, but didn't get a chance to go try it out. 

[Paul LaMasters]

"smooth" is the word most associated with a Shook masterpiece weave kite,

wait until you fly one of those,... naturally/unfortunately it is priced accordingly too!  Flies in low wind or a howling gale, at most you'd swap out the frame.

The most popular one is sure winner too, it's the 75%! It's smack dab in-between a mid-vent and full vent, flies fine (fully powered up) in 6 and can go 25 or 30 the same day.  Can be slicky smooth or a flailer's dream depending on tuning choices.

Someday, ride Shook mesh and see for yourself.

Yes, I am completely biased, I only buy kites from Bazzer or Shook, because they can both make a kite better than me! they will do what is asked of them too,if you make it financially advantagous enough. I have Eliot Shook had "his leading edge" to Bazzer's sails,... it's that much of a difference, both visually and in flight dynamics.  I owe five shook models, everything from one crafted before he was legally approved as a vendor, {100%, he had to donate it the AKA auction, but at least it was offered in my color scheme (R/W/B), what a convenience! } a 40% (kind of an SUL that can do double digit winds easily) a 75% (most commonly chosen model) and a 135%(equates to a mega-vent)

PLUS the latest Shook development, it is a progressive weave (75%) of strips, "thicker in the middle" of the two sail halves and thinner strips along the parameters of each.  The logic behind the progressive experiments is to add a shoulder to push against. Mine has knot covers sewn over the elastics on the bottom tip edges, extra reinforcing strips at the center and on the fold areas of the leading edge sleeve, (much more durable) it's not made with a dacron material either, so technically it's an SUL, it has wear strips behind the down-spars to prevent distortion of the sail, the usual assortment of modifications are also applied.

Each kite has it's strengths and weaknesses, but imagine a vented with without the weight of the venting material.  Sounds like a great solution and it is!  The builder takes his craft to an extraordinary level too.  You design your own color scheme, no one else will ever have a duplicate of your pattern.  Used ones are seldom and only offered because the owner wanted a newer one.

It's double the price but sometimes in life you get exactly what you've paid for.  Shook mesh kites are one of the most significant "values" in kiting in my opinion.  

Meeting up with other fliers broadens your horizon of experiences so easily, doesn't it?  Sharing the joys of OPKs is a great way to make friends.  The quad-head family is full of great folks, get some often!  

 

[riffclown]

+1 on the Shook Mesh.. There is no comparison.. Eliot's kites are called masterpieces for a reason..

[happysuperbutton]

@dragonfishyes that Clinic thingy! I'm intending to attend, hope to see you there too and get to know more local fliers 

And yup, heard and read all about the Shooks already, haha, can only imagine what joy it would be to be flying one. I love the Bazzer eye design too, a lot.

I saw a couple NYM sails at the festival over the weekend, those looked pretty too.

I went to test fly the RX Spider at the rev booth that day as like I said, I had my eye on it heavily too prior to getting my B...but more because I love the design and colors of the regular RX sail they sell nowadays. Yet to get a chance to check out the RX (xx or not), already making plans to possibly get the RX (not spider) as my second wife sail, as my non-vented sail. But all that a very long time away from now. 

I wanna get my inverted hover down first.

[makatakam]

Do you want to have your inverted hover down pat in one day? Of course you do! Try this:

Set your lines for as much brake as you can handle, minus one knot. Launch, fly to the top of the window. Turn the kite upside-down and fly towards the ground as slowly as possible without wobbling. At ten to fifteen feet above the ground turn and fly back to the top. Repeat 150 times, going slower on each descent, alternating the side you turn to. Take a break and park the kite every 10 repetitions for about ten minutes. I guarantee you will own your hover if you do this exactly as described. This should take 2-1/2 to 3 hours to complete.

You are aiming for descents so slow that you would swear it's not moving. Voila! you're hovering in control, steady as a rock.

[Paul LaMasters]

I'd say to start the other way, with the leading resting on the ground, now carefully and LIGHTLY push both thumbs at the kite,..... As you walk backwards slowly.  A little hand and little foot motion combined.  You want the kite to fly to shoulder-height and stop completely.  Now go back to the ground (forward and gravity to assist) and repeat the exercise again, go a little higher this time, STOP and slowly come back down.

If the kite will no back up this way (using both minor hand & foot motions combined,) then you don't have enough DOWN in the tuning.  Adjust leaders lengths until this is possible.

Eventually you should be able to back-up to the top of the window, (laser straight and with one constant speed!) but you will have confidence enough almost immediately when flying a foot above the earth.  Notice you can't do this stationary?  Well if the wind is blowing you can do it sitting down,just that most of us can't expect that set of conditions very often, so practice "adding feet" into the equation from the outset to more quickly master this technique.

If you only push one thumb, the kite will roll over (back to upright launch position), this is called a cartwheel. once you have this technique down tight, you don't have to go back to the kite and turn it over again when improperly landing (a crash).  This is the first thing to provide to new pilots, then they don't need you anymore to practice.

Inverted hover is just a stall, in low wind you need to move backwards and add energy to make it seem still in the air (only from the flier's perspective is it really & truly stationary)

 

[happysuperbutton]

Thanks bunches for the tips makatakam and Paul!

All good stuff I'll have in the back of my mind while I'm practicing.

I've been following JB's tutorial method, working great for me. Agreed, lower winds I do step backwards to get lift when launching inverted.

It might be my tuning. Will play around and see.

I have the motions down, just need to build the muscle memory. I very quickly forget which handle side is forward/reverse when the sail is inverted. That's just muscle memory. I can go up and down inverted, but at times I go up and down, up and down then down again instead and blow it.. haha.

Also noticed my wing bowties when inverted, the trailing edge tips I think I pull too much to me and the wing ends up bowtieing then flipping then I get bridles caught on the bungee. So perhaps it's my tuning I need to mess with.

Gonna put up another progress video soon!

Youll notice in the video I've been flying with seran wrap because wind season is departing. 

[John Barresi]

1 hour ago, happysuperbutton said:

Also noticed my wing bowties when inverted, the trailing edge tips I think I pull too much to me and the wing ends up bowtieing then flipping then I get bridles caught on the bungee. So perhaps it's my tuning I need to mess with.

Often times when folks initiate the inverted lift, they do over tilt the wing in n effort to "get more reverse" when in fact it's more like a car - gotta apply pressure and wait for it to load / speed up rather than adding more tilt, it's a fine line.

[John Barresi]

Remember when I described "burying your hands low"? That, and less literal handle torque may make things smoother.

[makatakam]

What is the length of your handles? Shorter handles like 11", or handles with more bend, will decrease the amount of input you give the kite. Definitely grab the handles lower if you're bowtieing. Remember, the kite is very unstable moving in reverse. Advanced flyers like JB make it look easy, but believe me, even he is on the edge of a bowtie at all times in reverse. Also, the kite's maximum reverse speed is only about a 1/4 of that in forward motion. When you initialize the movement you must start slow and gradually get it up to speed, just don't expect to break any records.   <This last statement is not 100% true, but we'll get around to "whump" once you are comfy moving backwards without over-controlling the kite. Too much input, too suddenly, is over-control and is what causes bowties and other issues like falling out of the sky. Once you can control the degree of error consistently it's called a "trick".

[happysuperbutton]

Hi all!

Good news! It finally clicked!! After taking everyone's tips and advise from this thread, and JB's videos, and his in-person priceless quick tips, aaaand the in-person help and advise of the local veterans in the area (Steve & Fred!!), this weekend I got the inverted hover! I'm so so happy. haha. 

I'm just about 28hours in flying time with the rev, I'm platueing and that's just fine, it's been an exhilarating and so enjoyable a time outside, flying, words can't describe it. Who woulda thought kite flying could be this much fun?!

Here's a really quick clip of some of the flying I had today during our trip to the coast, courtesy of my lovely one (sorry no HD) 

Enjoy.

Can't wait to nail the inverted hover even better, and then I'm eager to start figuring out how the Bicycle science works. I'm actually more used to flying in lower winds, today's video clip at the beach I was flying in I am guessing 21mph+ steady winds, the gulls and pelicans couldn't even fly straight. I had to remove my seran-wrap fix for today hahaha. My midvent/3wrap/90# was pulling hard, it slid me along the soft sand several times, but what fun!! Definitely easier in stronger winds, I get to do what I think, I like. And the kite can get so much faster too, love it.

Update again soon, I sincerely thank everyone that's been a part of my Rev journey thus far, I wouldn't be flying the way I am today if not for ANY of the tips big or small, long or brief, you graciously shared with me. (I'm no master yet, nowhere near the finesse needed to be a rev flyer, but looking back at a 45mins line-setup to a 4min line-setup and the control I have today, I'm so so grateful) Thank you!! 

 

[Paul LaMasters]

I enjoyed your experience!,....

one comment, not a criticism in any way

When you launched the kite at the very beginning you "dragged the leading edge diagonally" from an inverted position.  That is two string move and NOT what you are after at all with a quad!  That's abrasion on your leading edge sleeve and wear on the bridle loops, even the end-caps!  Remember, this kite design is all about one word, control.  

You allow it to drag eventually going into forward flight on the side OR you make it back up.  Practice the cartwheel until you DIAL it up to halfway point, balance there on the wing-tip (allowing your hands to go back to a neutral position, otherwise the kite also keeps right on going).

That is what I want you to practice, REVERSE & speed control.  Add still more "down" in the tuning in big wind, then kite will not suddenly surge forward.  Instead you "allow" it to go forward, like you were looking over the dashboard of your car, trying not to hit a critter with both feet stomped onto the brake pedal, inches only of progress being permitted.

I would stop you from flying one of my loaned kites until you mastered the cartwheel.  Love to share, so you can appreciate how serious I feel this comment to be.

The quickest improvement of skills comes about with how SLOW you can fly the kite regardless of conditions.  

The Speed series of wings will give you that rush if that is the ultimate objective.  Control the 1.5 platform while learning and then you can accelerate to the Shockwave, supersonic or a Blast, basically TWICE as fast in forward and reverse.  Best be ready for a huge increase of throttle sensitivity and pull.  Speed series kites are not really a great low wind choice, but they are howling fun on a beach with wind.

 

 

[makatakam]

The wind was a bit too much for the kite you were flying. When you have that much wind, let the top lines out two or three knots. It will slow everything down and improve control. You gain zero muscle memory if you are fighting against the wind for control of the kite.

Watch the clockwork, bicycle spin, and hover tutorials. Practice holding all eight hover positions -- upright, left, right, inverted and the four diagonals -- steady in one spot, and moving from one to the next nearest in both (so you don't become "handed") directions. Make the transitions as slow as possible. This will give you muscle memory in each position. Don't obsess over learning the bicycle spin. It will just "click" eventually like the inverted hover did. Let it develop without pushing it too hard. You need that muscle memory and slow, deliberate transitions from each position to the next before you can combine them into fluid motion. You must have control during the transitions, and the best way to get it is to spend a lot of time going very slowly. I know how much fun it is to zip around and just have fun, but it's ten times as much fun to zip around with total control.

You should hit that next plateau somewhere between 40 and 60 hours of flight time. Relax and let it happen. I look forward to your next video.

Remember, your primary objective is to have fun, smile, and don't forget to breathe.