General publics reaction to kites

[mwp]

Recently I have been kiting in a beautiful area of Socal. 

Here is an example of one of my spots(either the park on right or between the 2 lamp posts) along the beach but I have a few areas within a mile radius. There is a substantial amount of foot traffic, if I had to guess;  roughly 200 - 500 people in a few hour session. I am by no means pro but I do have a good amount of tricks in my book, so I ask you guys what is the general reaction you get flying in public?

Here are my thoughts: 

You can do a perfect flapjack, flic flac, yo yo,... you name it and 1 out of 100 people will turn their head and watch for 10 - 45 seconds. I used to fly revs with a guy here and he would literally stall on the top of the lamp posts and use them as obstacle courses, it was very impressive but no one cared. Children under 10 on the other hand love to chase revs and then parents suddenly think they are cool..

Some people just hate kites and the people that fly them, when there is the whole beach available they will decide to specifically walk in the flight path forcing you to land and then just step over lines, I have noticed this is particularly true of foreigners that are visiting the area although some foreigners are incredibly interested and careful. Ill be flying perfectly on short lines on an empty beach and a few people have even told me to go home because there was no wind. My favorite was a guy throwing a football directly at me while I was flying and another putting cones around me to create a soccer field when the WHOLE entire beach is empty at 8am. 

Kites are immediately associated with childhood no matter what you are doing. I.e. ("I haven't flown a kite since I was 14.")

Some people will assume you do not contribute to society and you are unemployed even though they are also at the beach in the middle of the day. 

Now for the positives: 

When you receive compliments it is always:  "Nice kite, where did you get it?", "Thats cool, what is it called?" , only three times in the past 3 months has someone complimented me on my flying.

If just one of these 10 people that asks you about what it is buys a kite the hobby potentially grows. 

Occasionally you will really interest someone and they will take videos on their phones for a few minutes; I have noticed women tend to try and discreetly snap a photo and keep moving.

 

All in all I think we have a lot of work to do in order to make kiting a more generally accepted hobby and peak public interest; some of the things you guys are doing are really incredible. I am curious to hear what you guys have to say about the response in your community.

 

 

PS. Please ping me if you know of anyone flying in Los Angeles area (I feel like I'm the only one)

 

 

 

 

[riffclown]

A few things I've observed

Ask someone to record you flying your kite and they will invariably record "you" flying your kite.

No matter how well you fly, the guy with the 2 line delta and 100' tail will get all the attention and his pic will be in the newspaper..

The dog which BY LAW (it says so on the sign) is supposed to be on a leash at the beach will invariably get "you" in trouble for yelling at him when he's trying to mark your expensive kites as his property.

People are generally oblivious to the dangers of hanging out directly underneath a large SLK Whale that's 25' off the ground.. They think of it as "shade"

General populace thinks kites "all kites" should still be less than $5

They are also completely unaware of the dangers of kite line. They duck under the barrier tape, walk across your field, trip on your line and cut their ankle and it's "your" fault..

The line on a $5 foil can slice through Skybond or LPG like a razor blade.

And like you observed, it doesn't matter where you set up, that's their spot now..

 

 

[RobB]

I fly kites for my own enjoyment. I don't fly much during the summer months (less than 2 hours since May) because there are too many people at the beach. 20 people are too many, because of the issues mentioned above. I like the days when I see maybe 5 people in the few hours that I'll spend flying. 

If you're out there to entertain the public, for the most part, it's a losing battle. Their iPhones are more interesting than kites. Let's face it, there are maybe a few thousand people in the world with the same passion & interests as ours, the rest don't get it...

[Exult]

Hmm.., darkness, frustration and aggravation... Those ungrateful bastards that get a show for free should really instead pay a fee and form up in arena large circles around you and do the wave  . In fact I do understand much of the above. Also every time I see a kite video with often fantastic moves (meaning tricks and/or precision) it mostly gets completely ignored by people that happen to walk by. Strange! How could they! Can't they see?? Then I think of horses and soccer. If I pass any activity of this sort I almost couldn't care less - it is just background. I wouldn't look twice unless the horse's physical dimensions would make it into Guinness Book of World Records, the rider did acrobatics on it's back, the soccer field was flooded knee high or (really bad) every player in the two teams would be involved in a fight. How absurd this may sound, it might be people that thinks similar of kiting...

When flying over here I get very little interaction with others. During the last two months I heard two positive things: "What a hi-tech kite you got" and "The wind is very good for flying today" and no nothing about the piloting (which may be somewhat fair because of my QLK rookieness, but yet...). (On the other hand it might be so that it was just an example of what the authority  Jannis Joplin said about the Swedish mentality at 00:30 and 01:13 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgSzbdL1So (and excuse me for linking to a video with such hard language in the headline))

No, not everything is darkness, the two best comments I've got (historically) is: (said in an elder man in a dramatic voice) "Thank you, thank you for visualizing the wind!" and (said by an apparently art interested woman) "I do events(or happenings/installations? - can't remember the exact phrase) and collect beautiful things, I'd like to write music [for a i.a. flying event] to your flying". She never returned in the matter though, but I must confess that I was quite surprised and flattered for the time.

 

What a coincidence @RobB. While writing the text before I got to post my comment I was thinking of more than one of your videos where some zombie ghost walkers appears totally unaware of the ongoing sessions of excellent flying.

[oscar]

Same xperience here....I have been flying in this county for close to 20 years and I can count with the fingers of both hands (and have a couple left over) the times a ''civilian'' have come over and complimented my flying/or my kites....but i keep flying even if surrounded by soccer-addled troglodytes at ''my'' Park!

Oscar, Miami

[ACrop]

Wow, while I get what you are saying about the oblivious folks I have also seen a very positive response too - especially to team flying. Even while solo flying I have had people stop and watch and ask...and even take the handles if conditions allow for newbie crashing.

Last time I was at the Washington monument with WOW we had really challenging wind and our "team" was struggling (likely would have struggled a bit with decent wind too;) and Fletch said to us: "lets land...just stick the landing...stick the rollover landing!" Something about the way he said it made us think of sticking a gymnastics landing and after landing one of us did the gymnastics girls exaggerated arms in the air move....and the tourist crowd (that we had been oblivious to the fact that many had stopped to watch as we struggled to stay aloft and untangled in intermediate cruddy DC wind) spontaneously clapped. We all grinned like goofballs.

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[John Barresi]

I've had to hone a "set" of moves, phrases and attitudes in order to maximize impact over the years, but it's still an uphill battle to bring new fliers from the general public (non festival situations).

[SparkieRob]

The biggest "draw card" I've had for when I'm flying has been on my Rev Indoor. The fact there is no wind and I'm flying a kite really draws the curiosity of people walking past. Leads to a lot of conversation. Doesn't lead anywhere other than that but it does start interest.

Anytime I'm on my 30 footers is good to be in an "exposed" area and makes it very easy to engage with people AND fly.

Barring all this, when I was playing around with stacks of Revs, I have literally stopped the traffic...


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[Chook]

Yesterday (first sunny day with steady wind for ages) I had my 85 foot Octopus lifting a giant squid and jellyfish. A lady who had driven down the dead end street to my Dads 20 acre block, said they had seen my display from 10 miles out of town and her little girls wouldn't let her drive by into town without a closer look.

Got a lot of great compliments from cars that drove down and parked so the kids could watch. Even got a little lad flying his own kite he bought with him after I put it together properly for him.

In the end had 8 Octopuses flying, as well as my laundry and only had to rescue my 8m2 ladybird out of a tree so a great day all round.

[Exult]

On 8/26/2017 at 4:19 AM, ACrop said:

...a very positive response too - especially to team flying. Even while solo flying I have had people stop and watch and ask...and even take the handles if conditions allow for newbie crashing.

Last time I was at the Washington monument with WOW we had really challenging wind...

Thank you for some positively minded reading!

12 hours ago, Chook said:

Yesterday (first sunny day with steady wind for ages) I had my 85 foot Octopus lifting a giant squid and jellyfish. ...                 In the end had 8 Octopuses flying, as well as my laundry and only had to rescue my 8m2 ladybird out of a tree so a great day all round.

Thank you for showing the way! All to need to do to have some nice bystander interaction is to switch to SLKs and make a massive massive display. A little great kite festival of your own and then you can have those little nice chats. Perhaps people are somewhat limited by politeness when DLK/QLK sessions are ongoing instead, when piloting one looks focused and occupied and they may think that the pilot should not be bothered. I'm sure that arranging with all the above kites is a lot of work, but they are not being constantly piloted. Could the time, when (hopefully) only monitoring the kites is necessary, give opportunities and open up for discussion with the people around you?

[ACrop]

I've had to hone a "set" of moves, phrases and attitudes in order to maximize impact over the years, but it's still an uphill battle to bring new fliers from the general public (non festival situations).

John can you share some of the tactics that you use? I used to raise guide dog puppies and found through experience that certain types of body language and certain verbal expressions got me a more positive and constructive response to the work I was doing. While flying is very different I am sure you have honed tactics that we could benifits from.

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[Wayne Dowler]

John's posts may be spotty - in Europe at the moment!

[happysuperbutton]

I'm new to the whole kite hobby too, but also totally understand what you're describing @mwp.

My experience has actually I think quite the opposite, so far in comparison to yours. 

I think it depends where you choose to fly. Foot traffic doesn't mean converting traffic. It's a busy foot path (even at a beach) maybe it's just the most convenient route for them to get to their destination. And if they're heading somewhere, it's very unlikely they'll stop their agenda to watch anything. They are busy.

I fly at my local neighborhood park,like frequently. Dual lines then now my rev (). The spot I happen to setup at is dictated by the wind, the park is surrounded by homes and buildings and trees, so there's a huge cross wind zone (my rev would 'deflate' because of the wind blowing opposite side of the sail). Anyways, so the window I get is nearest to a playground. They are people just hanging out with no agenda unlike the foot traffic at your flying spot.

And I get kids, a ton of kids, at the playground, and parents sitting them, always interfere and interrupt my flying. Almost every time at least once or twice I'll literally need to tell them to back away and stay at a safe watching distance.

Dogs too. They come to the park unleashed for their daily walks and charge the kite, especially if the kite is in their vision when I launch, dramatic movements catch the dog's attention instantly.

The parents would carry their kid, and watch for a good amount of time. You'll be able to hear the kids saying like "kite!" And parents like "that's really high" "did you see that?"

Even at the beaches, my experience so far I've had a nice number if passer-bys stop to video with their phones and either 1) say "it's a Revolution kite" as they walk pass and figure it out for themselves seeing the giant logo on the sail 2) compliment saying "looks like you're having fun" 3) if they don't see the lines, almost all in my few experience has apologized for tripping over the lines(while I'm landed)

And yes, a nice handful, I'd even say a very nice handful.. do end up chatting with me. The most recent person that I've met has even been coming back every evening and he comes hang out with me and my wife at the park as I fly lol. He's always saying now he's going to get a rev too, but still doesn't have one. I obviously direct all of them to Kitelife and Revolution's site  (or Prism if im flying dualie) not sure of the conversion rate beyond that.

I think people are also generally nicer up here in NorCal.  Smile, when you fly. Acknowledge the stopperbys, nod at them or wave. It's a warm gesture and opens conversation. 

We need more kiters!

[ACrop]

John's posts may be spotty - in Europe at the moment!

What kind of excuse is that?? I'm in Chile....of course I have no wind to speak of:( and I am sure he has plenty.

Sarcasm aside, I know...hopefully he will hit back when he gets back. Cheers from the Santiago wind free mountain valley.

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[makatakam]

On 8/29/2017 at 2:52 PM, ACrop said:

Sarcasm aside, I know...hopefully he will hit back when he gets back. Cheers from the Santiago wind free mountain valley.

Santiago is completely surrounded by mountains, isn't it? And I mean mountains, not hills.

[JWharton]

John's posts may be spotty - in Europe at the moment!

I'll speak to him later and tell him not to neglect his duties [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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[Paul LaMasters]

I don't even like to fly w/o spectators present,... I've come home early 'cause no one was there to appreciate my efforts.  I've also driven for hours to get to a place where big crowds are expected.

I've flown alone more than with others, (haven't we all?) but I also bring a big boombox, even alone so folks can appreciate what I'm trying to accomplish.  I love it when folks say they can "see the music in my kite's flight".  Hey I meant to do that!

Chasing kids is another priceless experience made easy by the control offered with a quad-lined kite. You have to approach them carefully, slowly and inspire confidence in the parents' eyes before this is an approved activity.  You have to be aware of your surroundings so if something goes terribly wrong you have an instant escape alley to use.  You can't let folks stand to close to you & certainly not directly behind you.  I also don't like folks in between me and the kite, behind either of us is fine you can't get caught in the strings that way.

A group of people flying together with music is sure to draw a crowd.  In places where to public has first right of passage (like the grounds of the washington monument).  A group of flyers will always keep something in the air (to claim our space).  If you set-up under us we will fly overhead, land nearby, walk the kites thru your newfound area and in general just encourage you to make another selection for a picnic spot.

If you are an obliviate (oblivious idiot) with your head buried in a cell phone screen, we will knock off your hat to the amusement of other spectators who ARE paying attention.  Stopping for a water break on your bicycle?  That big plastic helmet is perfect landing location if you aren't paying attention.  Taking family photos?  you bet we are directly in the shot and flying inverted over someone's head.  Or we are butting against the photographer's back as he looks thru a viewfinder whilst trying to center everyone.  Natural his family is howling.  If it looks like they will stop and turn around we quickly fly off so there's nothing to see.

Practice on safety cones or stop sign posts, so you can land exactly where you predicted it would go.  Then a kid's hand sticking up and out of a stroller becomes a possible "target".  Remember to approach slowly and carefully so the folks don't freak-out.

'llI give interested folks a lesson but I also announce loudly that I'm not there for this reason exclusively.

I like to land in their stroller will the child is out of it too!  It's not as much fun without the spectators.  Someday you'll get a gig where you expected to walk thru the crowd and still fly safely.  Are you up for that?

[Tmadz]

I often fly listening to Aaron Copland pieces and imagine choreographing a kite ballet someday. Not really practical if you're wearing earbuds and flying by yourself. There has to be some engagement with the people around you. THe problem is kites demand so much space themselves. Almost a contradiction. 

[Kansas Flier]

From my single line kiter perspective, I do fly kites to entertain, at kite festivals. And being a kite festival, there will always be comments and conversations about kites. If your aim is to entertain, kite festivals is where I get my fix.  

My single line kite flying, on a random weekend at my usual flying spots, is for my entertainment. The amusement of anyone walking around the park is a side effect.  When there are people, I'll get a passing comment, "Nice Kite", "Doesn't seem like enough wind", or "The wind'll pick up! It's Kansas".  I also like to fly an anchored single line to signal changes in the wind direction and strength. I would note that there are not a lot of people walking around the park when there is snow on the ground; I am out flying for other reasons, mainly- the wind is great.   

My dual line kiting is done for my own amusement. I'm not that impressive as a dual line kiter to entertain, at a festival or my usual parks.   

[makatakam]

I've noticed that people don't want to be the first to engage in conversation or interact with the kite or the pilot, but as soon as one person does many others will too. You have to look for that one "crazy" person who's easy to engage in the activity, and then the rest become much more receptive. At festivals it's very easy to interact with the crowd because they already expect it. The small venues like the local park on a Sunday afternoon are much more difficult to garner any interest from the crowd.

[mebeatee]

When I lived in Vancouver many years ago there were a bunch of us flying at Vanier Park and one Mr Ray Bethell would put on "shows" all day long to cheering crowds. I'm certainly no Ray Bethell and I don't live in the city anymore and also kiting was in it's '90's heyday.....ya had to be there.

Now I live outside the city right across the street from a great beach at low tide and personally I could care less about what the general public thinks about my kiting as it is my "alone time", which is precious to me. Sure there are a good number of folks who take pix and I've met some wonderful people while flying which is way cool....but I don't fly kites to put on a show or engage folks. It is quite nice to explain to what is happening with the kite(s) and why I bring a number of kites to the beach. I also go as far away as possible from the crowds more for safety reasons than anything else.....the walking on a huge open beach directly towards a moving kite constantly astounds me.

I am also very lucky in that I can use kiting as part of my work which is a musician. I can listen to and learn music that has to be performed or mixes of things that have been recorded. So in that case I generally don't like to be bothered however will engage if approached.....ya never know when someone will actually "get" kite flying and get one or three for themselves. 

bt

 

[ACrop]

Santiago is completely surrounded by mountains, isn't it? And I mean mountains, not hills.

That is right. The rain we have gotten here in the city shows as snow in the nearby mountains.
The view from our front gate. Most wind I have seen this month? 3mph Gusty. Yuck. I need a good beach day badly. I even went to the beach and there was still a large hill between me and the wind from the south. Oh well, no fue la meta de esta viaje. Wasn't the goal of coming here. [emoji6]

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[John Barresi]

On 8/26/2017 at 9:57 AM, John Barresi said:

I've had to hone a "set" of moves, phrases and attitudes in order to maximize impact over the years, but it's still an uphill battle to bring new fliers from the general public (non festival situations).

 

On 8/28/2017 at 2:27 PM, ACrop said:

John can you share some of the tactics that you use? I used to raise guide dog puppies and found through experience that certain types of body language and certain verbal expressions got me a more positive and constructive response to the work I was doing. While flying is very different I am sure you have honed tactics that we could benifits from.

 

 

 

I kept putting off this reply until "I had more time" but it got away from me... 

For quads, I generally rotate through these moves...

• LOUD dive stops
• Spins near the ground
• Walking the kite
• Object interaction
  - balance on flagpoles, etc
  - move objects (flip flops, beach balls, etc)
  - landing on things like tents, etc
  - landing in someone's hand (with consent)
• Catch and throw (on short lines)

On dual line, I'm usually pounding these...

• Hard snap landings
• LOUD spins near the ground and back up to top of window
• Fast combinations (squares, circles, landings)

On both...

• Making it look easy. Amidst the more complicated and active movements, sometimes flying the kite in such a way that I can relax, look around, maybe sit down, anything to make it look easier and more accessible in-between the intensive stuff.

There's more but that's what comes to mind off hand... My idea is thinking about and developing the things that are most likely to catch (and hold) a spectator's interest, basically if there is a kiteflier inside them, the things that will most likely engage them.

What I've seen in my experience, other than demonstrated skill, the main things that seem to capture folks' attention include...

• Loud kites
• Tails (one or more)
• Team flying
• Stacks / trains
• "Defying physics" (like the dive stop)

Incomplete thoughts above, but a start for more discussion.

[SparkieRob]

My boy and I put on a "show" for the public at a popular beach on the grassed area last week. Was fun. People loved when I followed them slowly in all orientations. Divestops kind of scared them. The moonwalk was a hit. Axels! Sideslide into a super flat axel then BOOM fly off. 

[JWharton]

My friend and I where asked yesterday if our quads were 'training kites' for kite surfing[emoji12][emoji23]

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